NEW 45 ACP AMMOxxxx UPDATE ON TEST

[STORMINORMAN]

There's always 45 acp Shot Shells if you REALLY want a bunch of little holes...

Cheers!

P.S. As far as the new bullet tech is concerned I happen to be a firm believer in the Polycase and Lehigh products, the Federal Micro 130gr HPWC... BUT... One needs to draw the line somewhere!

 

[Univibe]

Lehigh is the bullets that look like the tips on multiple screwdriver tools?

All that sort of stuff just makes a big hole in your wallet. Q4318 in my edc.

 

[BC38]

Not that I am against new technology as it applies to ammo, but 117 grain is ridiculously lightweight for a .45 acp projectile IMHO. Personally what I truly like about the 45cp is the massive weight of 230 grains. I'll pass......

I'm with you on that one, but the velocity of most 230gr 45acp loads is in the 700fps-850 fps range.
This load is half the weight but TWICE the velocity.
That makes it a high muzzle energy load - since the formula for ME is
ME=mass x velocity SQUARED, so the ME for this one would be a lot higher than a 230gr even at the 850fps upper end.
It isn't like a 117gr bullet is too light for penetration - lots of 9mm SD ammo is in the 115gr-124gr range at 1200fps or so, and it seems to penetrate just fine. This stuff is a couple of hundred fps higher velocity than that.
The 3-way fragmentation is the only part I'd have issue with. A good mushrooming design that retains its mass would make more sense to me.
It should cycle most 45s reliably given the energy it produces based on its higher acceleration making up for the lower mass.
Just playing devil's advocate...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have never shot a 45 ACP with a bullet lighter than 185gr and didn't like that weight. IMO 200gr or 230gr bullets are acceptable with a 230gr bullet being my preference. I'm not a fan of any light for caliber cartridge. I just like ammo with the weight bullets that they were developed with or which became the standard for that cartridge soon after it's creation. Of course there are those who will disagree with me but that's fine, it's why all the different weight bullet ammo sells.

 

[cmj8591]

That makes it a high muzzle energy load - since the formula for ME is
ME=mass x velocity SQUARED, so the ME for this one would be a lot higher than a 230gr even at the 850fps upper end.

Muzzle energy doesn't necessarily equal penetration. A lot of that energy is going to be used up in separating the slug into it's three parts. That creates another issue. You won't have a 117 grain slug, you will end up with three slugs weighing only about 40 grains trying to penetrate so it won't be as efficient as a 9mm, 115 grain bullet. Those pieces will loose their momentum quickly. These remind me of the segmented shotgun slugs that Hornady made a while back. They looked great in ballistic gel but they fell apart compared to a regular slug when it came to penetrating something hard (think bone).

 

[ladder13]

Will it make someone/thing bleed?

 

[stansdds]

When I want to shoot a 117 grain bullet, I pick up one of my 9x19mm pistols. 45 ACP does remarkably well with 185 to 230 grain bullets, really well with modern design JHP bullets of 185 to 230 grains.

 

[16thVACav]

I'd expect to see it on the gun show table where they sell the Dragon Breath shot shells.

 

[4barrel]

My question is whether that light a bullet would generate sufficient recoil impulse to cycle the slide. Remember, the recoil is a function of mass and acceleration. Would you have to use a really light recoil spring?.

Froggie

A guy gave me the ammo to test. It looks to be aluminum alloy. I will try a few at 25 yards on the bench to see how it prints and then maybe a 2x4 or ??? at a short distance. It looks to be the size of 230 ball and at 1450 fps it should work the slide. I am curious about what the recoil will be. I got a lot of laughs and spilt my coffee once. I have 45's set up for different loads with 10 to 18 pound springs. Maybe this afternoon if it doesn't rain.

 

[BC38]

Muzzle energy doesn't necessarily equal penetration. A lot of that energy is going to be used up in separating the slug into it's three parts. That creates another issue. You won't have a 117 grain slug, you will end up with three slugs weighing only about 40 grains trying to penetrate so it won't be as efficient as a 9mm, 115 grain bullet. Those pieces will loose their momentum quickly. These remind me of the segmented shotgun slugs that Hornady made a while back. They looked great in ballistic gel but they fell apart compared to a regular slug when it came to penetrating something hard (think bone).

Agreed. In the portion of my post that you didn't quote I said as much with this sentence...

"...The 3-way fragmentation is the only part I'd have issue with. A good mushrooming design that retains its mass would make more sense to me..."

FWIW, there is another school of thought that says the "energy dump" of all that ME being dissipated in the target (think tissue damage) is a benefit rather than a deficiency. The thought process being that the bullet doesn't need to poke a smallish 15" deep hole almost all the way through the chest cavity if it can penetrate 10" into the chest cavity and turn a large section of its contents into jelly instead.
Or so goes the "high ME is better" school of thought...

 

[flintsghost]

For those who equate "snake oil" with Glaser Safety Slugs, maybe you need to rethink that. Glaser Safety Slugs were designed for ONE thing. They were designed for the Sky Marshall program to give them a round which wouldn't penetrate the skin of an aircraft but would be a deadly round if needed on board an aircraft where people were not wearing body armor and high penetration was not needed. I don't believe anyone associated with the company ever said it would revolutionize ammunition. They do have a deadly track record of kills. They are still made by the Corbon folks and are available in 45ACP and 9mm. They do work for what they were designed for. All the original James Bond books, written by Ian Fleming were published long before Glaser's were developed. They were never intended for self defense ammo to be carried on the street. The 45ACP Glaser was 147 grains which is a lot more than the round which sparked this conversation.

If one's need is for a killing round in confined spaces where overpenetration is undesireable then a Glaser is a top choice. Otherwise, don't waste your money.

 

[Narragansett]

More boutique ammo to punch holes in paper targets. IMHO the 230 gr round nose hardball is all you really need. Plenty of knockdown, penetration, and reliable feeding.. Hard cast SWC in revolvers.

I never deviate from the FMJ round nose. There are a lot of Germans, Chinese, Koreans, and Vietnamese that could attest to the effectiveness of the original FMJ round, if they were still around.

While the 9mm is our current military round, the 45acp is still used extensively in the military, by special groups

 

[Nevada Ed]

I did not see from this thread, to who made this ammo, was it a major company
or a new company, with a new "Product", trying to test the waters?

A very interresting load indeed, with the light bullet and three sections.
If someone test it, the recoil and penetration would be of interest.

 

[rockquarry]

More boutique ammo to punch holes in paper targets. IMHO the 230 gr round nose hardball is all you really need. Plenty of knockdown, penetration, and reliable feeding.. Hard cast SWC in revolvers.

I never deviate from the FMJ round nose. There are a lot of Germans, Chinese, Koreans, and Vietnamese that could attest to the effectiveness of the original FMJ round, if they were still around.

While the 9mm is our current military round, the 45acp is still used extensively in the military, by special groups

Good post that makes sense.

 

[BC38]

For those who equate "snake oil" with Glaser Safety Slugs, maybe you need to rethink that. Glaser Safety Slugs were designed for ONE thing. They were designed for the Sky Marshall program to give them a round which wouldn't penetrate the skin of an aircraft but would be a deadly round if needed on board an aircraft where people were not wearing body armor and high penetration was not needed. I don't believe anyone associated with the company ever said it would revolutionize ammunition. They do have a deadly track record of kills. They are still made by the Corbon folks and are available in 45ACP and 9mm. They do work for what they were designed for. All the original James Bond books, written by Ian Fleming were published long before Glaser's were developed. They were never intended for self defense ammo to be carried on the street. The 45ACP Glaser was 147 grains which is a lot more than the round which sparked this conversation.

If one's need is for a killing round in confined spaces where overpenetration is undesireable then a Glaser is a top choice. Otherwise, don't waste your money.

The ammo was designed for sky marshal use, BUT it was marketed commercially for home defense. The pitch was (and still is) that it was a deadly/incapacitating round that wouldn't over-penetrate. The original pitch was that did massive tissue damage on bad guys, but it could still be stopped by a single sheet of drywall.
Safety Slug - Blue

 

[Buford57]

Appears to be an Aguila product. Their .22 specialty loads do what they are designed to do. When I switched from .357 to .45 for my house gun I loaded it with 230 gr Ball ammo because I wanted certain function. I later shot enough 230 gr. Hydashocks to be comfortable using them. Both have a long, positive track record of stopping aggression. Life's too short to be a guinea pig.

 

[4barrel]

I did not see from this thread, to who made this ammo, was it a major company
or a new company, with a new "Product", trying to test the waters?

A very interresting load indeed, with the light bullet and three sections.
If someone test it, the recoil and penetration would be of interest.

It is on the box-South of the border.

 

[cmansguns]

South of the border huh?

So.....the manufacturer was marked on the box: South of the border.

OK.....there is one of those truck stop, trinket shop, all-in-one places near me down on the NC line.

I'll check out the ammo when I'm picking up snake-oil

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

I don't understand how you can bash an item without even seeing it or actually trying it out.

Like saying you don't like the new corvette based on a picture and description.

 

[4barrel]

So.....the manufacturer was marked on the box: South of the border.

OK.....there is one of those truck stop, trinket shop, all-in-one places near me down on the NC line.

I'll check out the ammo when I'm picking up snake-oil

You never heard that song,<SOUTH OF THE BORDER DOWN MEXICO WAY>? By Gene Autry----Aguila has been making ammo since the 60's. I bought some <South of the border> chips yesterday.