Sudden, Miraculous Recovery re Overhead Lights in Closet

[Onomea]

Update on recovery in post 25.

We bought our current house, built in the early '90s, a year ago, and are still getting familiar with it. In the master bedroom walk-in closet are two overhead lights controlled with a dimmer switch. Prior to my shower yesterday evening, when I went into the closet the lights did not work when I clicked the switch on. Worked fine until then.

Since they both stopped working at the same time, I assumed the problem was not with the light bulbs, but with the wiring. Still, just in case, I thought I'd try replacing the bulbs this morning to see if it would work.

When I tried to replace one the bulbs, the light turned out to be a fixture I have not seen before:





Last summer I had an electrician replace the existing light switch as we found it too finicky. The old switch looked like the left half of this switch:



The new switch, installed last summer, looks like this:



The replacement switch is one my wife got off Amazon. Prior to asking an electrician to install it, we'd asked a handyman, who was here doing a variety of things for us. The handyman changed a few other light switches, tried to change/install this one, but gave up, saying we'd need an electrician.

After the electrician installed it, it worked fine until yesterday.

Note how one can tell the switch is on (off?) by the little light shown. The little light goes off if the switch is clicked the other way. I am assuming this means the problem is not the switch, because there is power there, but I know close to zero about light switches.

So, guys and gals, what's going on here and how do I fix it?

 

[Imissedagain]

Never assume anything with electricity.
A volt meter is necessary.
Next time you hire a competent electrician, watch, ask questions and learn.

The led might be getting voltage/amps but the rest of the switch might not pass it to the light.
Leds and small light bulbs, in both AC and DC, are something troubleshooters carry. Volts may be present but not enough current to light things up.
We even carry little motors with a higher amp draw.
Chasing voltages is easy once you learn the safety rules and where to place the probes.

I might add: some light switches, bread makers, medical equipment etc etc do not like modified sign wave inverters but you can buy inverters that don't chop the wave.... pure sine wave output.

 

[bigwheelzip]

First off, I'd apply the K.I.S.S. principle, and ditch the dimmer in the closet.
No good reason I can think of for a dimmer there, and a more complex thing than necessary to break.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

 

[arjay]

I’d check the connections on the switch first to see if a wire is loose. Is the plastic unit hanging from the can a self contained bulb? I’ve never seen a can light like that

 

[Imissedagain]

Connectors might be screwed down tight but the wire crimp might be a bit loose, inside the connector, and the power is not as it should be along the wire.
Sharp test probes spike the wire's jacket to test when loaded or unloaded.

You could bypass the switch.
Turn off power at the breaker and wire the light to the power wires observing which of the lights wires are hot and neutral.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Just a common problem other people have had; Is the GFI in the bathroom popped off?

Ivan

 

[JohnHL]

Place a "jumper" across the switch terminals.

If the light works, replace the switch.

John

 

[AKtinman]

Those fixtures appear to be LED replacements for the original incandescent "can" lights.

If both lights "failed" at the same time, have a look at the switch, as others have suggested.

 

[Onomea]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Would it seem reasonable to you all for me to call the electrician who installed the switch last summer and tell him it's not working and that I expect him to fix it?

I hired him primarily to install new outlets in several places throughout the house, including two bathrooms where he needed to get up in the attic and crawl around. He brought along a young assistant, was here maybe two hours, and charged me $830. He'd told me over the phone in advance that, ballpark, it would be $500 ~ , but I was still surprised at the amount given that he only spent perhaps two hours at it.

Seems reasonable to me that if the issue with my closet lighting is how it is wired, or the switch, that the electrician who installed the switch four or five months ago should repair it at no additional charge.

What say you?

 

[Bekeart]

Try an Incandescent Bulb in the fixture.

Try an Incandescent Bulb in the fixture.
If the incandescent bulb works the following explanation will likely explain the problem.

Above post mentions the you might have an LED in fixture.

LEDs and dimmers have compatibility problems.

Only SOME LEDs can be dimmed, and they require a SPECIAL variety of dimmers. Not the old fashioned backwave modulation dimmers that we have had for fifty years.

e.g I recently put an LED in over the stove hood:
Full power switch - Works FINE
Night Position - Flashes like a police car.

Bekeart

 

[JohnHL]

That's a difficult question to answer.

Considering that your electrician provided neither the lights nor the switch, his only responsibility is for the wiring.

And if it worked for 4-5 months, it's probably NOT the wiring.

It wouldn't hurt to ask, if he went $330.00 over the estimate.

But he would only be doing it as a courtesy and you should probably expect to pay him.

Again, test the switch by jumping across it.

If you're uncomfortable around electricity, pay him to replace the switch with one he provides and then you will have a warranty.

John

 

[Jessie]

Could it be like some Christmas tree lights? The first bulb goes bad and breaks the connection to the rest downstream?
Maybe swap the cans and see what happens. Won’t cost anything to check.

 

[Greyman50]

Light fixture is a use and throw away, sign of the times. As mentioned, KISSis best. Ditch the dimmer, look for normal single throw switch( old fashioned light switch) and if fixtures are bad go back with normal can fixtures that you can change the bulbs in. IMHO the electrician ripped you off Big Time!!!!!Around here most charge maybe $75 per hour and your job with even going in attic( unless very tight craw space) should have taken about 2 hours. Pays to get several estimates in wrighting.

 

[TX-Dennis]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Would it seem reasonable to you all for me to call the electrician who installed the switch last summer and tell him it's not working and that I expect him to fix it?

I hired him primarily to install new outlets in several places throughout the house, including two bathrooms where he needed to get up in the attic and crawl around. He brought along a young assistant, was here maybe two hours, and charged me $830. He'd told me over the phone in advance that, ballpark, it would be $500 ~ , but I was still surprised at the amount given that he only spent perhaps two hours at it.

Seems reasonable to me that if the issue with my closet lighting is how it is wired, or the switch, that the electrician who installed the switch four or five months ago should repair it at no additional charge.

What say you?

You said (I think) that you bought the switch from amazon. If that is the case no electrician that I know would warranty that for you. Most likely culprit is the cheap Chinese made switch.

Switches are really simple to install. If I were you I'd purchase a regular switch and replace the dimmer with a simple on/off switch of your preferred color and style. Just make sure to throw the correct breaker first so you don't get a painful zap. I've been zapped a few times, and it does get your attention. Not sure why you'd need a dimmer in the closet. I doubt you spend a lot of time in there. Mine's the size of a small bedroom, but I never spend more than a couple of minutes inside.

 

[dockmurgw]

that the electrician who installed the switch four or five months ago should repair it at no additional charge.

What say you?

I would say no since you provided the switch.
Voltage testers are cheap. If your not comfortable using one, you could buy a voltage tick...thats a non contact tester that you touch against the wire insulation, if it lights up there's power. If you want to get adventurous, you could bypass the switch and see if the lights come on, narrow it down that way. My vote goes to a bad Amazon special dimmer switch.

 

[Onomea]

I take the point about what we think is the problematic dimmer switch being a cheapo off Amazon, and not the electrician's responsibility.

I like the idea of replacing the switch with a non dimming, standard on/off switch. I asked my wife and she agrees with BWZ and TX-D that there is no need for a dimmer.

I switched out a bathroom light/fan/heater switch in my old condo by replacing it with one that looked just like it and connecting the (four?) wires exactly as they were in the old switch.

In this case, moving from the dimmer switch to a standard off/on switch, will the way I need to attach the (three?) wires be identical? I.e., if I just attach the wires to the new on/off switch exactly the same way they are currently attached to the faulty dimmer switch, will that do the job? (There's something about that dimmer switch that stumped the handyman who tried to install it.)

Roger that on finding and turning off the correct breaker before going in there.

 

[arjay]

You’ll need a tester to find the hot wire(you can get a cheap one where you buy the switch).Power in goes to the gold screw on the side of the switch and power out goes to the silver screw and the ground goes to the green screw

 

[Greyman50]

Having done control wiring in machine tools for years and rewiring house during a remodel being careful and knowing whats right and whats wrong is the only way. Buddy had electric license, got permit and I did all the work. When city inspector came to finalize job he could not believe how neat the wiring was in new 250 amp panel. I just kind of laughed and said yea, it looks like the inside of a machine tool cabinet..

 

[riverrat38]

I am somewhat guessing here, but it seems possible that those lights are low voltage, with the driver as part of the original switch. LED's need low voltage, and the driver (sometimes called ballast) can be in the fixture, or at a remote point. The driver is a transformer and rectifier, to get the right voltage and direct current. We have the transformer in our closet, to supply the cable lamps in our dining room and kitchen. The fixtures should be marked. A volt meter will tell all. If the wires in the attic aren't in a jacketed cable, they are not for 120 VAC.
If the dimmer is set too low, the lights can flash. Ours do. You don't really need a dimmer to save current with LED's, they don't use much on full power. It may already have been said, but some lights require a special dimmer.
Finally, if a driver switch (I don't know if they are even used, but it seems like a good idea) were replaced by a regular dimmer switch, it would be feeding the lamps with 120 VAC, perhaps reduced by the dimmer, which would not be a good idea.

73,
Rick

 

[Onomea]

riverrat38, thanks for the thought. I went back upstairs, into the closet, up the stepladder and took these photos of the info on the fixture. Says 120V, so not low voltage, like you were considering, right?

Regular on/off switch should be okay, right?



Here is further info from the fixture in case it is useful: