Cartridge designations

[DWalt]

"The 1906 round would fire in an original 1903 and the 1903 round would chamber in the 1906"

While the '06 round will fit and fire in the '03 rifle, the reverse is not true. Or shouldn't be. Aside from the case length, the real difference between them was that the .30-'03 cartridge had a different and heavier RN bullet and had much different external ballistics to the .30-'06 cartridge and spitzer bullet. Therefore, the rear sight of the .30-'03 rifle had to be changed to match the ballistics of the newer .30-'06 cartridge. Therefore, the Army purposely made the .30-'06 rifle chamber dimensions shorter so that the .30-'03 cartridge could not be used in it, only the .30-'06 cartridge.

 

[rockquarry]

Can any of you suggest which issue, apart from "get the latest" would be the most accurate? It appears that successive issues didn't always get better.

These should be available cheap on the used market. I'd get several, maybe an early one, one from ten or twenty years later, and a current one. That should cover most everything.

It's important to note that this started as a GUN DIGEST publication when John Amber owned GD. He also published GUNS ILLUSTRATED and HANDLOADERS DIGEST. Amber was a gun guy but he's been dead a long time. The company that owns the GD publications now may not be composed of gun people and that may have some bearing on the quality of the publications, even though some of the individual editors of the various publications are decent gunwriters in their own right.

 

[Green Frog]

Can any of you suggest which issue, apart from "get the latest" would be the most accurate? It appears that successive issues didn't always get better.

I have used an old (7th Ed?) copy for years… I think it was the last one from Frank Barnes. It lacked a lot of newer cartridges so somewhere around here is a 10th or 11th Ed, IIRC. If I were starting fresh I'd look for a deal on the newest edition I could find reasonably for all the recently introduced cartridges, then try to find an early one from the FB era to get the original spirit of the project. Off topic, but I'd also buy the new Hodgdon annual for up to date info and loading data.

I have also heard urban legend that "327" sounded extremely cool and a neat reference to a certain screaming Chevy small block V-8. Which seems absolutely ludicrous, given that handguns and muscle cars have nothing whatsoever in common but at this point I think we can agree that literally ANYTHING is possible, regardless of how ludicrous.

While on this subject, I must point out that I've always been moderately annoyed that the .32 H&R Magnum was so named. A fine cartridge in it's own right, this cartridge is the epitome of of a .32 Special, not a magnum, and if I could re-write history, I would so name it the .32 H&R Special.

Of course there was already a 32 Special, a rifle cartridge in the 30-30 family, so that would have been confusing. I think of the H&R as the "32 Magnum Wannabe" but it's awkward to say and irritates my dear friend Dale53, so I content myself with "32 H&R" and quit. From the factory it is not and never has been a legitimate magnum. Handloads can be quite another story!

I have to admit to not thinking of the 327 Small Block connection but would readily admit the possibility. Like many of us here, I "grew up(?)" dreaming of fast cars and powerful guns. Then girls complicated my life!

Froggie

 

[Goblin]

Another item of note is that when a barrel starts with a .300" hole drilled, it's called a 30 caliber. Then rifling grooves are cut .004" deep, usually six of them. Then it's .308" across to the bottom of the grooves, and that is the desired bullet diameter. That's why a 35 caliber usually takes .358" bullets, .244" bullets are used in a 6mm, and the same is true of many cartridges.

 

[Green Frog]

So the 32 revolvers should be .328" at the grooves? Even the 32 Ideal isn't that big! My head is starting to hurt!

Froggie

 

[Drm50]

Read the top of the cartridge box, bottom right. My 1895 Win is marked 30GOVT06.

 

[DWalt]

While COTW remains a worthwhile publication to have on your shelf of gun books, today, it's not really necessary. Also, unless later editions of COTW have become more comprehensive, there are many of the obsolete and more obscure cartridges not to be found in it.

Wikipedia has good writeups on most every cartridge you'd want to know anything about, including dimensions, ballistics, and general historical background information. And there are many other websites having similar information, and in some cases, very extensive details and historical narratives. While I have an older edition of COTW and a large number of other cartridge-related reference books, if I want to know something concerning a specific caliber cartridge, I go first to Wikipedia.

One excellent cartridge reference book which includes both common and somewhat obscure and obsolete CF cartridges is Donnelly's "Handloader's Guide to Cartridge Conversions". Not too much information is provided on cartridge history, but it is very deep in dimensions and includes some ballistics and handloading data. As you might imagine, it is principally intended for use by handloaders who wish to make up all sorts of wildcat, obsolete, or unusual (including metric) cartridge cases starting with more available cartridge cases.

 

[DWalt]

Another item of note is that when a barrel starts with a .300" hole drilled, it's called a 30 caliber. Then rifling grooves are cut .004" deep, usually six of them. Then it's .308" across to the bottom of the grooves, and that is the desired bullet diameter. That's why a 35 caliber usually takes .358" bullets, .244" bullets are used in a 6mm, and the same is true of many cartridges.

The British also sometimes used the bore diameter, not the groove diameter, in naming cartridges. For example the .303 Enfield uses a bullet of around 0.312" diameter.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

An old Boss of mine used to Metal Detect old Military Encampments.
He found some Rimmed Bottle Neck Rimfire Rifle Brass. Big.
What it is? I don't know.
I'll bring in my best Cartridge Book.
We found it, then he looked at the back cover.
Frank Barnes! I know him.
We went to Grad School together at the Univ of New Mexico!

 

[rockquarry]

While COTW remains a worthwhile publication to have on your shelf of gun books, today, it's not really necessary. Also, unless later editions of COTW have become more comprehensive, there are many of the obsolete and more obscure cartridges not to be found in it.

Wikipedia has good writeups on most every cartridge you'd want to know anything about, including dimensions, ballistics, and general historical background information. And there are many other websites having similar information, and in some cases, very extensive details and historical narratives. While I have an older edition of COTW and a large number of other cartridge-related reference books, if I want to know something concerning a specific caliber cartridge, I go first to Wikipedia.

One excellent cartridge reference book which includes both common and somewhat obscure and obsolete CF cartridges is Donnelly's "Handloader's Guide to Cartridge Conversions". Not too much information is provided on cartridge history, but it is very deep in dimensions and includes some ballistics and handloading data. As you might imagine, it is principally intended for use by handloaders who wish to make up all sorts of wildcat, obsolete, or unusual (including metric) cartridge cases starting with more available cartridge cases.

Before the Internet, as I recall, I read there were a number of errors in the Donnelly book. Regardless, lots of good information, but I'd double check figures if possible from another source.

I bought the Donnelly book not long after it was first published more than thirty years ago. I can't remember the whole story, but seems a revised edition was in the works or maybe it was published, but that probably would have been after Donnelly's death.

A similar book by the late Ken Howell, "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges for Rifles and Handguns" is also an excellent information source. Howell was the editor of HANDLOADER and RIFLE magazines for several years.

 

[DWalt]

I bought the Donnelly book not long after it was first published more than thirty years ago. I can't remember the whole story, but seems a revised edition was in the works or maybe it was published, but that probably would have been after Donnelly's death.

Mine has a 1987 copyright date, and is autographed by Donnelly. So it is probably a first edition. I found it at a used book store about 20 years ago, maybe even earlier.

 

[DWalt]

An old Boss of mine used to Metal Detect old Military Encampments.
He found some Rimmed Bottle Neck Rimfire Rifle Brass. Big.
What it is? I don't know.
I'll bring in my best Cartridge Book.
We found it, then he looked at the back cover.
Frank Barnes! I know him.
We went to Grad School together at the Univ of New Mexico!

There are several of them, American and European. For example the .56-46 Spencer and the .41 Swiss. I would guess the latter. They were in fairly common use in the US back in the late 19th Century.

 

[gregintenn]

Fun, ain't it? Wait til you get into Smith and Wesson model numbers, or Harley Davidson model designations.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Fun, ain't it? Wait til you get into Smith and Wesson model numbers, or Harley Davidson model designations.

Funny you bring up Harley designations. I had a '73 Superglide when I was 19. I'd go to the Harley store to buy some part or whatever, and I'd get "Is it an FX, FXE, FLH, etc.?" I'd just ask how would I know? All that's written on it is Superglide across the metal thing between the forks!
Then there are the different Corvette engines' designations. And versions of different cars of all makes. I've had 4 Impalas: an '03, 2 '08s, and a '16. Each one had several years of the exact body, lights, etc., so if one drove by you had no idea what year it was titled. They all pretty much have the same trim levels on each generation, but I think the generation of my '08s was the only one with the V-8 SS.
I'm done trying to think for today!

 

[Pig Hunter]

The European system gives case length and bullet diameter ( 9x19) and f it has a rim ( 7.62x 54 R) but gives not clue one if the described cartridge is straight walled or bottle necked. Not much more helpful.