A Tragedy

"Always be certain of your target, and what lies beyond it."

A good argument for either a flashlight or a weapon mounted light. That sort of pain never goes away.

Exactly. A few years ago I read of a similar incident where a homeowner shot an intoxicated adolescent neighbor who mistakenly went through the wrong window.

When I served as a LEO, I carried a baton as well as a pistol. The pistol (fortunately) was never needed but the baton came in handy a few times. Bottom line: If all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail after awhile.
 
"Always be certain of your target, and what lies beyond it."

A good argument for either a flashlight or a weapon mounted light. That sort of pain never goes away.

I agree a suitable light to ID the perceived threat is important.

That said, our garage has a light switch by the door. Don't make it more complicated than it has to be, and never shoot unless you are sure an imminent threat exists,
 
I read about that. I also read/heard in the past few days of a father accidentally shooting his son. I did not read or hear the full story but my surmise is that the case was similar.

A police officer about an hour and a half from here in Jacksonville NC shot his son in the head. Reportedly a negligent discharge.

Most law enforcement officers are not firearms experts and accidents are unfortunately common.
 
Your comments raise a good point: where do we draw the line with prosecuting someone for an accident?

I think Alec Baldwin should be prosecuted for manslaughter, given his lack of gun safety training and just basic stupidity, notwithstanding his hypocrisy for being anti-gun, yet making a movie involving guns and refusal to man up that he, and not the gun, was responsible.

I'm more inclined to support prosecuting the father in this situation, because there was no imminent threat, he should have had identified the intruder visually, and/or should challenged the intruder with verbal commands. Obviously, he lacked formal training in self-defense or at least failed to run through test scenarios with home intruders/burglars.

In contrast, I'm more sympathic toward Kim Potter, the Minnesota cop convicted of manslaughter last week. Potter meant to use her taser and made spontaneous utterances to that effect, but was also dealing with a suspect resisting arrest.

At some point, society has to prosecute accidental deaths to deter them and encourage citizens' diligence. If we blankedly refuse to prosecute intra-familal deaths, then family members could be inclined to murder each other and appear to make it look like an accident.

I agree 100%. I've made myself unpopular with many of my friends and my wife's friends by pointing out the obvious bits of the Potter case:

1) the need for any level of force at all would never have arose if Wright had not previously carried a handgun without a permit, and as such had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. The decision to arrest was also prompted by a restraining order against Wright, and the presence of a woman in the car who had not yet been excluded as the basis of that restraining order. Wright's previous actions are what turned this from a simple citation to an arrest.

2) even with the arrest, had Wright not resisted and then attempted to flee in his vehicle not need for force would have existed. He brought this on himself.

3) a suspect attempting to flee in a vehicle with another officer still partly inside the vehicle and at imminent risk of serious bodily harm or death *was* a justification for lethal force.

4) Potter was charged and convicted because she immediately made an emotional statement after the shoot that she'd made a mistake. If she'd have lied and stated she intended to take Wright but at the last minute determined that would not have adequately addressed the threat to the other officer it would have been ruled a justified use of lethal force. That's a lesson you can bet nearly every police officer in the country has learned and taken to heart.

It also a lesson armed citizens should take to heart. After a shoot remain silent. If asked to give a statement, respectfully decline. If you say anything at all, just state you were in fear of your life, you are still emotionally upset and you'll give a full statement when you are ready and able (and you should under no circumstances be ready and able until after you've spoken with legal counsel).

5) Potter's mistaking a gun for a taser isn't common but it also isn't unheard of and it happens about once or two each a year. It's a known mistake that can be made under extreme stress. That is at odds with negligent intent.

6) the Potter prosecution is a great example of how the law as it pertains to jury trials has gotten out of hand. Some where along the line the role of the jury has been twisted from adding common sense and discretion to the legal process to instead only ruling on whether the letter of the law has been met - and juries are instructed to do just that, even when doing so flies in the face of common sense and an intelligent interpretation of the facts.

The same thing has occurred with mandatory sentencing laws that are intended to ensure sentencing isn't arbitrary or disparate, but instead remove nearly all discretion from the prosecution and the court. The 110 year sentence for the truck driver in CO is a prime example.

———


Baldwin should be prosecuted in part because he was also the producer who underfunded the safety aspects of the set, including not hiring an arms master to properly manage the firearms and conduct essential safety briefings and weapons loading and clearing activities.

And as always, the actor actually shooting the gun should be properly trained to know and understand if it's loaded, if so what it is loaded with, and personally verify the status of the weapon.

Baldin failed on all counts.
 
Last edited:
Why wait for facts? This is the forum way. :rolleyes:
To be fair, there are a fair number of facts already known.

1) A father shot and killed his daughter;

2) while she was in her own garage;

3) because the father for some unknown reason thought she was an intruder.


Other than that unknown reason, not much of relevance is missing.
 
Most law enforcement officers are not firearms experts and accidents are unfortunately common.

No, they're not all firearms experts but they are trained to safely handle firearms.

"Unfortunately common"??? I could not disagree with this comment more. So much so I won't even argue the point although I would like to see a statistic that supports "unfortunately common" among LEO's.
 
A police officer about an hour and a half from here in Jacksonville NC shot his son in the head. Reportedly a negligent discharge.
Trying to envision how such a negligent discharge could happen. Just seems so unlikely for someone with a basic knowledge of gun safety.

To my mind, most likely scenario I can envision is Bill Jordan practicing his fast draw and shooting through a wall.
 
A police officer about an hour and a half from here in Jacksonville NC shot his son in the head. Reportedly a negligent discharge.

Most law enforcement officers are not firearms experts and accidents are unfortunately common.

Goes to show you, you can't believe the media reports - in that case the child found a guest's gun, in the guest's truck. And shot herself.

But don't let that stop you from piling on and blaming the father.

I will say though, why wasn't a 3 year old being supervised while outside riding her new bicycle?
 
Goes to show you, you can't believe the media reports - in that case the child found a guest's gun, in the guest's truck. And shot herself.

But don't let that stop you from piling on and blaming the father.

I will say though, why wasn't a 3 year old being supervised while outside riding her new bicycle?

Exactly why we wait for the FACTS.

But hey , this is how the forum operates. They had Rittenhouse guilty before the FACTS.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct.../9054438002/&usg=AOvVaw1gQui7EHA3C0uI6qjd8FFc
 
Last edited:
To be fair, there are a fair number of facts already known.

1) A father shot and killed his daughter;

2) while she was in her own garage;

3) because the father for some unknown reason thought she was an intruder.


Other than that unknown reason, not much of relevance is missing.

One other fact:

4) he shot without first identifying his target.
 
No, they're not all firearms experts but they are trained to safely handle firearms.

"Unfortunately common"??? I could not disagree with this comment more. So much so I won't even argue the point although I would like to see a statistic that supports "unfortunately common" among LEO's.

I know of three from 21 years in field policing.

An officer in the '80s spent a year and a zillion dollars getting custody of his 8 year-old daughter. We were usually 'on-call' for immediate emergencies (lack of manpower - you had 24 hours on-call with a 9 hour work requirement in that period). He cleaned his revolver, and the phone rang with a call for service - he loaded the revolver while on the phone. Once off the phone, he remembered he hadn't wiped down the oily revolver, so he wiped it quickly (he had to get it in his holster to go in-service), pulled the trigger to 'snap' the revolver not remembering he had loaded the revolver. He was horrified when it fired, penetrated a wall, and the bullet struck his daughter in the head, killing her instantly.

Another was a captain who blew a hole in his car roof while getting out his shotgun at a 'hot' shooting scene.

Finally, the head of governor's security turned in his issue 9mm for a 45; it looked good, but I checked and found a round in the chamber. No tragedy, but it surely could have been.

Not sure that is an "ufortunately common" number for 700 officers who carried 24/7 for 21 years.
 
Last edited:
I agree 100%. I've made myself unpopular with many of my friends and my wife's friends by pointing out the obvious bits of the Potter case:

1) the need for any level of force at all would never have arose if Wright had not previously carried a handgun without a permit, and as such had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. The decision to arrest was also prompted by a restraining order against Wright, and the presence of a woman in the car who had not yet been excluded as the basis of that restraining order. Wright's previous actions are what turned this from a simple citation to an arrest.

2) even with the arrest, had Wright not resisted and then attempted to flee in his vehicle not need for force would have existed. He brought this on himself.

3) a suspect attempting to flee in a vehicle with another officer still partly inside the vehicle and at imminent risk of serious bodily harm or death *was* a justification for lethal force.

4) Potter was charged and convicted because she immediately made an emotional statement after the shoot that she'd made a mistake. If she'd have lied and stated she intended to take Wright but at the last minute determined that would not have adequately addressed the threat to the other officer it would have been ruled a justified use of lethal force. That's a lesson you can bet nearly every police officer in the country has learned and taken to heart.

It also a lesson armed citizens should take to heart. After a shoot remain silent. If asked to give a statement, respectfully decline. If you say anything at all, just state you were in fear of your life, you are still emotionally upset and you'll give a full statement when you are ready and able (and you should under no circumstances be ready and able until after you've spoken with legal counsel).

5) Potter's mistaking a gun for a taser isn't common but it also isn't unheard of and it happens about once or two each a year. It's a known mistake that can be made under extreme stress. That is at odds with negligent intent.

6) the Potter prosecution is a great example of how the law as it pertains to jury trials has gotten out of hand. Some where along the line the role of the jury has been twisted from adding common sense and discretion to the legal process to instead only ruling on whether the letter of the law has been met - and juries are instructed to do just that, even when doing so flies in the face of common sense and an intelligent interpretation of the facts.

A Jury of her peers seems to have disagreed with you. After hearing all the facts.
 
I say prosecute him. I'm sure he's destroyed inside and I sympathize, but he either recklessly or negligently took a life. That's either a manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide in NY. Enough with feeing bad and not prosecuting. A life has been taken. An example must be set. If he gets probation then so be it, but he should be charged.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top