Federal Introduces New .30 Super Carry Ammunition

[AManWearingAHat]

Couldn't that be said about just about every cartridge introduced in the past 20 years? Most new cartridges are just incrementally different (not necessarily better) than existing rounds.

The last new cartridge that I adopted was the 6.5 Grendel.

Dave

A fair comment on my pejorative statement. You're absolutely right with your assessment. Most of these new cartridges come and go.

Those incremental differences tend to magnify in rifle cartridges more with the long range crowd which is why I think it is easier to market new rifle cartridges stick around. Shooting volume is also generally lower.

With handguns, because the energy involved in so much lower, I would submit that most of those incremental differences add up to minutia that is probably lost in statistical noise of the loads available for popular established calibers. Most handgun calibers have terrible BC's relative to their rifle cousins, and are ultimately limited by the size of guns people want to carry. So in my eye's there's not much to be gained because you're working in a very constrained box. This is all for the added cost, to new users, of a new less available (especially now) ammunition and a new gun to accommodate it. After all, most of us are still shooting 9mm Luger from 1901 despite many "9mm killers" throughout the years.

 

[reccpd101]

OK, save the retooling costs and sell the primers or lower the costs of 9mm, 32 magnum or 38 special.

 

[cmj8591]

A cartridge that would have bridged the gap between 380 and 9mm would have been better IMO but this one is a replacement for standard pressure 9mm, not 380.

Why do we need to bridge the gap between the 380 and 9mm Luger? A solution in search of a problem.

 

[Dave Lively]

Why do we need to bridge the gap between the 380 and 9mm Luger? A solution in search of a problem.

This cartridge is being made to increase capacity, particularly in small carry guns. A somewhat less powerful cartridge would make those small carry guns easier to shoot well. Or, alternatively, make it possible to design guns that are somewhat lighter, smaller and easier to carry than a micro 9mm.

The ideal power level would be the minimum required to both reliably expand and penetrate deeply enough to be effective. Good 9mm hollow points make the cut and 380s don't. Maybe the 30 SC is loaded up to 9mm power levels because that is as good as it gets when it comes to adequate performance with the lowest possible recoil. But if bullet design has improved to the point where adequate performance with even less recoil is possible that would be better.

"How do I get more rounds into a small carry gun?" is question a lot of people ask. I see lots of people on forums wishing for revolvers that hold one or two more rounds. Or asking about magazine extensions or replacement springs to increase capacity. Or even buying third party magazines of questionable reliability because they hold more rounds. The 30 Super is one answer to this question.

If you don't think buying a new gun and ammo for a 20% increase in capacity is worth the money that's fine. You don't have to buy one and this is a real but modest improvement many people have been asking for. But not a revolution that makes all other guns obsolete.

 

[Cdog]

The .41 Mag was supposed to bridge the gap between the .357 and .44 Mag, and it does. It was supposed to be a more powerful yet still controllable option for those that wanted more power without added pain.

The similarly sized .38 Super languishes on the sidelines, despite it offering superior performance to the 9mm.

After bridging the 9 to 10mm gap the .40 S&W has now fallen to the wayside.

Speaking of "gap", anyone remember that answer to a none problem?

How many times over the last 40 years have we read about the demise of the obsolete .45 ACP?

Examples are endless.

The .284 Winchester is arguably one of the best rifle cartridges developed during the 20th Century. Near Magnum performance from a rebated rim short fat flat shooting cartridge that uses a standard bolt face, is easily fit in any .308 Win sized action and it now has only a small cult following. Terrible marketing never let it get off the ground.

This has more to do with marketing than actual superior performance. Two more rounds than a 9mm from a 9mm size weapon? Give me better performance and one more round in a pocket size .380 platform and you may have something for me.

The engineers and manufacturing folks need their jobs. Sales reps, gun writers, and publishers too have a vested interest in the latest, whether it's the greatest or not.

 

[glenwolde]

very wonderful, it can do 10 rounds of a subpar round vs the P365XL which can do 12 in the much better 9mm....someone sleeping at the helm.

But that's not apples to apples. How many could the 365 XL hold? It should be 14 or 15 if the 20% increase in capacity is correct.

This is reinventing the wheel. It's not like there's never been high velocity .30 caliber handguns before. They've all fallen by the wayside. There's probably a reason why.

 

[cmj8591]

This cartridge is being made to increase capacity, particularly in small carry guns. A somewhat less powerful cartridge would make those small carry guns easier to shoot well.


"How do I get more rounds into a small carry gun?" i

I'm not sure if a round designed to operate at the 50000psi level is going to make the gun easier to shoot. It sounds to me like it might be a bit snappy. That remains to be seen I guess. As far as making 380 and 9mm defensive rounds viable, the engineering used to make bullets can be adapted to just about any velocity. In this case, it's a backward step to get a bullet that starts out smaller to expand to a diameter equivalent to a 9mm bullet. And make no mistake, the size of the hole that the bullet makes is still a big part of it's ability to do damage, notwithstanding the tortured conventional wisdom to the contrary. Sig pretty much answered the capacity question when they came out with the 365. When we start getting into discussions about concealed carry gun capacity vs. concealability, 5 vs. 8, 8 vs. 10, 10 vs. 12, it just turns into a case of the tail wagging the dog. And I think that's what this gun is, a case of the tail wagging the dog. I love new gun stuff and a lot of it I run out and buy the first chance I get. But I have to say, this new round and gun doesn't have me running for my check book.

 

[Dave Lively]

I'm not sure if a round designed to operate at the 50000psi level is going to make the gun easier to shoot.

It won't. I would have preferred this be somewhat less powerful than 9mm but Federal disagreed and I don't get a vote.

As far as making 380s that expand you are right about that being possible. You can get 380 hollow points that reliably expand right now. But the 380 lacks the power to drive those expanded bullets deep enough. With that level of power you have to choose penetration or expansion, you cannot have both.

If 10 rounds is enough for your situation and comfort level stick with 9mm. But I don't want you or the government deciding how many rounds is enough for me.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

smaller guns make it harder to shoot so you need more rounds for the spray and pray factor. More rounds sells guns, one never knows when the zombies will come.
I will pass.

Your first sentence covers the WHOLE enchilada.........IE: The small high capacity plastic squirt gun craze.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

No really. It's a semiauto pistol round.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cmj8591]

It won't. I would have preferred this be somewhat less powerful than 9mm but Federal disagreed and I don't get a vote.



If 10 rounds is enough for your situation and comfort level stick with 9mm. But I don't want you or the government deciding how many rounds is enough for me.

Don't feel bad, they don't listen to me either.

I would never try and dictate what or how many you or anyone else carries. If you want to walk around with an M60 and a couple of belts of ammo, go for it. This is a post about how a new gun and caliber fits into the concealed carry world. I'm just expressing my opinion based on my experiences. Please don't turn it into a political issue. That's really not the topic here.

 

[S&W629]

Seems like an answer/soultion to a question never asked....

 

[Will Horn]

What is the point? Existing caliber ammo is still scarce, why add another caliber that can't be had to the mix.

 

[David Lee Valdina]

It runs at very high pressure ...

It runs at very high pressure, which is not a good thing in my opinion. It is a little better than a .32 acp in terms of weight at it's velocity but my guess is that as a self defense round in what you are apt to carry and use, it makes very little difference. You will need a more substantial gun to contain that pressure with a good safety margin. So much for light weight in a little concealable pocket gun. I will not be buying one.

 

[peyton]

It also will rely on two things, availability of guns and cost of ammo. I don't care it is the geez with atomic bullet, if you can't find it.

Recall the great .380 shortage from a few years ago?? My best friend bought a Ruger LCP from Sportsman warehouse and the sells man was really apologetic about having no bullets for it!

S&W needs now to offer a swap kit for everyone who has a shield, another barrel and magazine and shazam it works!! Oh, only if the extractor can grab it??

 

[DWalt]

S&W needs now to offer a swap kit for everyone who has a shield, another barrel and magazine and shazam it works!! Oh, only if the extractor can grab it??

Not sure about that, but I would guess it could.

 

[smoothshooter]

Sounds like someone in upper management at Federal has been leaning on the Sales and Marketing department heads to come up with SOMETHING new for their 2022 lineup if they want to keep their jobs.

I think they would be better off to focus on getting their existing lineup back on dealer's shelves instead of diverting limited resources and time to new product lines.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Was watching a vid put out by Guns and Ammo. Apparently Remington and Speer are also on board, probably because they are all under the same umbrella

Federal HST, 100 gr at 1200 fps, Speer Gold Dots 115 gr at 1095, and Remington 100 gr JHP at 1230 fps. Also basic FMJ loads from all three brands.

 

[Green Frog]

When I first read this thread I thought the new round was simply a modern take on the 30 Mauser or Luger… including the case that shared a base and rim size with the 9mm. If for no other reason than that it would be interesting to have a smaller caliber, high performance round to use in pistols designed for the 9mm platform, I was interested.

Introducing a whole new cartridge family, unlike anything else on the market immediately raises a red flag though. No existing pistols are really likely to be readily adapted to it. Ammunition supplies, already tight for existing calibers, may cause the public to hesitate at the thought of buying what may well become a starving orphan. While some people will buy the next shiny thing they see, planking down a big sum from my dwindling money supply to buy a plastic fantastic doesn't thrill this old fogey.

OTOH, that Federal HST bullet, already proven in the 327 Fed Mag round for revolvers, is pretty attractive, so if issues with ongoing ammo supply and questions about performance of the pistols themselves can be addressed satisfactorily, well… we'll see. I'm going to sit back and wait.

Froggie

 

[erikpolcrack]

Has there been any discussion/explanation as to why they didn't call it the 32 Super or 32 'Something'?