Should very large handgun magazines be heavily regulated

[biku324]

So-called '3-strikes' laws were, in my opinion, the biggest success in reducing crime rates from the 80s though now. You can't deter them, as they don't believe they'll be caught, but you can surely keep repeat offenders out of circulation as long as possible.

 

[biku324]

What kind of person thinks that making something illegal means criminals won't get it? What kind of person thinks it's difficult to make magazines? They are a box with a spring inside. What kind of person thinks it's hard to change magazines during a reload?

Do you not remember the 1994 ban that had zero effect other than to wipe out democrats electorally? It was so ridiculous that we sunset it in 2004.

Now, like the definition of insanity, we want to do the same thing again and expect different results? A supposed gun enthusiast wants to volunteer to ban magazines to an arbitrary capacity again?

What is the magic number for how many rounds I should be allowed to have in the magazine I use to defend my life? Please give us a universal number.

Thank you.

1. Criminals can get legal tools much more easily than illegal tools.
2. The murderer Loughton wouldn't agree - he was overpowered when he muffed his reload to a second 33 round mag.
3. While there are many factors involved, murder rates in this country dropped from 8.89 per 100,000 population in 1994 to 5.56 per 100,000 in 2004. They are slightly above that now, but not much. Who really cares what happens to political parties?
4. Not my call, but i'd mildly suggest 18-19 rounds for handguns (whatever the largest flush-fit mags for available calibers might be now) and 30 rounds for semi-auto rifles. Generations of our armed forces have done just fine with these mags even in combat - you should be fine as well.

Look, I know we won't agree; I just refuse to accept platitudes as fact. If we want to keep what we have, we need to be as accurate in our arguments as in our shooting, IMO.

 

[steelslaver]

My proposal is every crime has a point value. Upon conviction the criminal receives the points. While the crimes one is charged with can be plea bargained as well as length of sentence for charges convicted of in any manner But, if you plead guilty or a jury finds you guilty of a crime that number of points is fixed. Once a certain number of points are reached, that is THE END.

Felony theft 10 points
Assault 10 points
Kidnapping 15 points
murder 20 points
rape 15 points
armed robbery 15 points
Total up 31 points your FINISNED

 

[SMSgt]

My proposal is every crime has a point value. Upon conviction the criminal receives the points. While the crimes one is charged with can be plea bargained as well as length of sentence for charges convicted of in any manner But, if you plead guilty or a jury finds you guilty of a crime that number of points is fixed. Once a certain number of points are reached, that is THE END.

Felony theft 10 points
Assault 10 points
Kidnapping 15 points
murder 20 points
rape 15 points
armed robbery 15 points
Total up 31 points your FINISNED

You're too generous with your point scale.

 

[ladder13]

I believe the 2A folks have prevailed here.

 

[Beemerguy53]

That would be my world. Another part of my world would be that crime is so swiftly and severely punished, no one thinks about committing crimes.

Yeah, fantasies about crime and justice play well here...and we all have them. But the USA isn't a libertarian Disneyland, and I don't think the Founding Fathers ever intended it to be one.

In a legislative hearing or a meeting with elected/appointed government officials, you have to present rational and reasonable arguments to people who might not be inclined to agree with you, and then persuade them to vote your way. In the real world, declaring your support for getting rid of all gun laws will get you laughed out of the room.

One of the things that has become very apparent on this thread is that many of the folks commenting on it have never defended gun rights except among like-minded people on the internet...

 

[gregintenn]

Yeah, fantasies about crime and justice play well here...and we all have them. But the USA isn't a libertarian Disneyland, and I don't think the Founding Fathers ever intended it to be one.

In a legislative hearing or a meeting with elected/appointed government officials, you have to present rational and reasonable arguments to people who might not be inclined to agree with you, and then persuade them to vote your way. In the real world, declaring your support for getting rid of all gun laws will get you laughed out of the room.

One of the things that has become very apparent on this thread is that many of the folks commenting on it have never defended gun rights except among like-minded people on the internet...

That is the sort of thinking that got us to where we are today. Maybe someday things will get bad enough the majority of us will decide to do something about it.

 

[Catwrangler]

Perfect example of laws w/o teeth-
Here in Fla. poss. of a firearm by a convicted felon is a min. of 3 yrs./ 15 yrs. max. I worked in the circuit court system for 10 yrs. I can't tell you the number I've seen the firearms charge dropped as part of a plea deal.

 

[biku324]

That is the sort of thinking that got us to where we are today. Maybe someday things will get bad enough the majority of us will decide to do something about it.

Where we are today is the best it's been since at least 1968. I like it better today.

 

[dockmurgw]

Well, if anything, I'm heartened by the fact that 90+% of the people here realize that this thread was a massive fail.

Thanks OP!

I wouldn't call 6 pages (and counting) of conversation and debate without getting locked a massive fail.

 

[ladder13]

Our Federal laws being broken/ignored daily by those sworn to enforce them.

 

[gregintenn]

Where we are today is the best it's been since at least 1968. I like it better today.

I agree with regards to gun control. I was speaking about crime. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[gregintenn]

I wouldn't call 6 pages (and counting) of conversation and debate without getting locked a massive fail.

Technically, it did get locked pretty quickly, then later, unlocked.

 

[Oldfrt]

No matter what the regulations are to purchase anything, a dedicated knowledgeable person can purchase all the tools required to manufacture almost anything at your local Harbor Freight. Materials needed can also be purchased at any dealer of metal by the foot or hardware store. All laws and regulations do is keep the honest person honest. Lets try to enforce the current overbearing stuff before we add more bull stuff to the mix.

 

[zeke]

I wouldn't call 6 pages (and counting) of conversation and debate without getting locked a massive fail.

While am strongly disagreeing with several premises presented, learning the reasoning for the premises may be extremely valuable. And they certainly have a right to their opinion.

And as a wise old redneck once said, "insisting on being right doesn't mean it gets done that way".

 

[ggibson511960]

Houston has several cops shot with Glocks or Glock ghost gun clones, fitted with extended capacity magazines and auto switches, all procured and owned by felons. To quote Lee Simmons in The Highwaymen, "This has to stop." The technology genie is out of the lamp among Houston street gangs and there is no likelihood of putting him back as long as 3-D printers and private, un-numbered frame manufacture exists. Vigorously enforcing existing laws is the obvious solution. Selling an un-numbered ghost gun or manufacturing an auto switch is already illegal. Outlawing either likely wouldn't do much, but maximum sentences against offenders would thin the herd. Firearms enthusiasts are in a precarious public opinion spot supporting gross capacity magazines.

 

[biku324]

Forget about magazines...I wouldn't bet a dime on the Second Amendment surviving a referendum. Heaven help us if the movement to rewrite the Constitution ever really gains traction.

Looks like we're now halfway to a Constitutional Convention.

The Nebraska Legislature overcame the filibuster in approving a push for a convention of states to amend the U.S. Constitution, becoming the 17th state to do so.

State lawmakers passed a legislative resolution, LR14, in a 32-11 vote Friday, according to the Unicameral Update.

A convention of states is outlined in Article V of the Constitution, according to The National Consitution Center. It is used to bypass Congress to amend the Constitution, but has never been used. A state's call for amendments can only be considered after approval by two-thirds of its Legislature. With Nebraska's call, the U.S. is halfway to getting the 34 states required for a convention, the Associated Press reported.

Opponents of the resolution in the Nebraska Legislature argued there would be no way to impose limits on the convention, according to the Omaha World-Herald. They also said there is nothing that details how the convention would be structured, such as if every state would have one vote or if votes would be proportional to population.

"The motivation for the convention is real and valid," said state Senator John McCollister, of Omaha, the World-Herald reported. "But there are simply too many questions outstanding."

Earlier this week, Wisconsin had become the 16th state to call for a convention, AP reported. It had been the first state to do so since Mississippi in 2019.

Other states approving a call for the convention are: Georgia, Alaska, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, Indiana, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arizona, North Dakota, Texas, Missouri, Arkansas and Utah, according to the Convention of States Action. There are also 19 other states considering the resolution.

The only way amendments have been made in the past is through Congress proposing them to the states under Article V of the Constitution, The National Constitution Center reported. MSN

 

[Mistered]

While there are many factors involved, murder rates in this country dropped from 8.89 per 100,000 population in 1994 to 5.56 per 100,000 in 2004.

I'll take a guess and say you intentionally left out the part about this being the time frame of the AWB?

Lots of controversy and conflicting numbers from this time period.

and 30 rounds for semi-auto rifles. Generations of our armed forces have done just fine with these mags even in combat

And generations of our Armed Forces also did just fine with all the the belt fed MGs, miniguns and other various high capacity weapons used in combat as well.

 

[biku324]

I'll take a guess and say you intentionally left out the part about this being the time frame of the AWB?

Lots of controversy and conflicting numbers from this time period.


And generations of our Armed Forces also did just fine with all the the belt fed MGs, miniguns and other various high capacity weapons used in combat as well.

Sigh. That AWB timeframe is the entire point. Perhaps I should have spelled it out in caps and underlined it? I was replying to a post that said the AWB did nothing...I was pointing out that's not so clear when others argue about it.

Those aren't legal for average civilians. As you know.

 

[ladder13]

The only reason those states would be calling for a CC is to bolster states rights. I am not the least bit concerned. I'll sleep just fine.