The biggest advantage is the mags will drop free. Improvement to the trigger is modest is any at all. On the two I've done, a Browning and a FEG, the improvement was barely noticeable. It's still a Hi Power and there's not a lot you can do to the trigger.
Browning High-Power Magazine Disconnect
- Thread starter erikpolcrack
- Start date
This is correct. My Springer has easily the nicest trigger of the three HPs I own. So much so that my Browning will probably head down the road.
Darkenfast
Member
My C-series BHP is similar. The trigger is six-pounds but very crisp. Competition types may not like that weight, but I think it's a very good service pistol trigger. It's been a while since my 1911 days, but the military issue specimens I shot were about the same.
This is just my speculation: It is extremely heavy triggers on later High Powers that have caused much of the bad reputation that the pistol has had for terrible triggers. The triggers were not an issue to the various forces that adopted the weapon.
As for the magazine disconnect: I do find it a minor nuisance to the manual of arms. However (and this is important), lightning fast magazine changes were never on the radar of anyone adopting the BHP as a service pistol. The extra time necessary to strip out the empty mag is probably lost in the "noise" of dealing with web gear, magazine pouches built into the holster, etc. Accidental discharges, however, have serious consequences, not just to anyone injured or killed, but to anyone up the chain-of-command.
Just my opinion.
To me there is a huge difference in the assembled in Portugal HPs. The most noticeable thing is the spongy triggers. I had a couple guys get mad at me over HPs. They shot mine and ran out and bought new ones They were disappointed to say the least. They didn't say anything to me before they bought or I would have told them.
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When I quit using my BHP to shoot matches, I reinstalled the mag disconnect (our duty pistols had them, I don't see an issue with the item) with a bit of modification. After watching how the shoe interacted with the magazine I reshaped & polished the contact surface and reduced the spring pressure on it. Still works as a disconnector, minimal effect on trigger and with some factory nickel/chrome finish mags, they eject. Parkerized mags sometimes need a wee shake to drop free.
One item with just removing the disconnector is that the trigger will now generally have substantial over travel. Some suggest re-installing the shoe without the spring to reduce this.
No issue military service pistol has what many people call a "good trigger". The 1911 made it's rep with a pull that generally went 6+ lbs.
One item with just removing the disconnector is that the trigger will now generally have substantial over travel. Some suggest re-installing the shoe without the spring to reduce this.
No issue military service pistol has what many people call a "good trigger". The 1911 made it's rep with a pull that generally went 6+ lbs.
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squidsix
Member
My Lithuanian .40 Hipower had the disconnect intact. It still had a terrific trigger. I removed it nonetheless because I dry fire a lot, and do not allow any magazines present when dry firing.
Mine's one of the Portugese assembled ones - the trigger isn't the equal of earler guns. It's fine for me, but not a target trigger.
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Hair Trigger
US Veteran
The disconnect can be removed without removing the trigger, there are several videos that show how. However, I found it just as easy to remove the trigger when I removed my disconnect, and it gave me the opportunity to thoroughly clean the inside of the frame where the mechanism fits (bought mine used and dirty). You are on the money with taking the pin out right to left. If OP wants to try it, the pin is flat and flush with the frame on the left side, and proud and rounded on the side where you drive it out. A finishing nail set works well if you don't have a concave pin punch, otherwise the punch will slide off and damage the frame finish.
I liken the BHP's trigger to a two-stage rifle trigger; there is some take-up before it reaches the break. The disconnect adds some uneven creep to the take-up, and removing the disconnect gets rid of the creep entirely. I really like the feel of mine now, and it has a nice, crisp break. I didn't notice any difference in the reset without the disconnect. Mine is a 1995 Mark III, .40S&W.
I was going to leave my disconnect in, until I bought a couple of Mec-gar magazines for it. I only got one of the mouse trap magazines when I got the gun, and when the two new ones wouldn't drop by themselves, I decided to remove the disconnect so they would all function the same way. That mousetrap spring really launches the mag out the bottom, now.
Like everything else there is a scale of tolerance. The trigger pull on a LEOs service pistol doesn't need to be Target Grade. It's the same thing with sights. A fixed sight gun that shoots to point of aim is all needed.
These pistols made for " practical" competitions are anything but practical. As usual with all types of matches they tend to get enhanced to the point they are no longer practical.
I can't think of any popular handgun that has been made for years that has the fit and finish they did 40-50yrs ago. That includes pistols & revolvers.
Exactly my experience. On my HP I removed the disconnect so the mags dropped more freely. Removal of the MDC only improved trigger pull by about 1/4 lb. The biggest trigger pull improvement came from reducing the hammer spring from a 32 to 21 lb unit and increasing the recoil spring to 18.5lb (to help the recoil spring cope with the reduced hammer spring). I also replaced the hammer and sear with C&S units and got the TP down to 3.5 lb from 9 lb in stock configuration.
I had the magazine safety removed from my 69Cxxxx Hi-Power when I bought it. I carried it on the job for years until my agency de-authorized single action autos.
A few years later I had it reinstalled. My thinking was that I would have some liability if I sold or traded it with any non-working safety device. I didn't notice any difference in the trigger pull.
I eventually gave it to my son who is proud to have one of my old "work guns".
A few years later I had it reinstalled. My thinking was that I would have some liability if I sold or traded it with any non-working safety device. I didn't notice any difference in the trigger pull.
I eventually gave it to my son who is proud to have one of my old "work guns".
I remember my late father using steel wool to slick up his magazines to improve the trigger.. he also had Bill at Cylinder & Slide work it a bit along with removing the disconnect.. sits just like that in the safe
There is no longer a mag disconnect in my old M59 and will remove it from the stainless Ruger MKIV Target when time permits.
I did not remove them, even from the BHP, for any reason other than the were not necessary.
The BHP, with or without the disconnect, did cut my boy's offhand groups in half compared to the M59 in SA mode.
Crisp rules with triggers and thin pizza.
The BHP is a range gun while the M59 is carried as necessary and was fun to teach family/friends how to not double during the DA to SA mode.
The 380 PPKs with light loads and Bobcat 22LR are used for that chore more often now.
For the true Bond fans I let them use the blued Walther as opposed to the stainless.
I did not remove them, even from the BHP, for any reason other than the were not necessary.
The BHP, with or without the disconnect, did cut my boy's offhand groups in half compared to the M59 in SA mode.
Crisp rules with triggers and thin pizza.
The BHP is a range gun while the M59 is carried as necessary and was fun to teach family/friends how to not double during the DA to SA mode.
The 380 PPKs with light loads and Bobcat 22LR are used for that chore more often now.
For the true Bond fans I let them use the blued Walther as opposed to the stainless.
Sistema1927
US Veteran
True for some, but not for all. Mostly, older pistols will allow this with later manufacturing requiring removal.
oysterer
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Not to underestimate the trigger pin. It sits in there very tight. A cupped steel punch is recommended. If you hit with a flat punch hard and slip, there just went your HP frame, at least the looks of it. Too many HP out there with 'idiot' dents like that.
I am very late to this party but hear is my $.02
Removing the magazine disconnect can be as easy as removing the retaining pin in the trigger without removing the trigger and shaking the gun until it falls out of the magwell or it can be require a hydraulic punch. If you are at all hesitant about the skills required to do this vs your gunsmithing skills I highly recommend getting it done by a good smith who is familiar with the BHP. It will cost you a lot more if you mar your BHP frame.
With FN/Brownings there are no hard and fast rules or dates as to which one you own. In general on Pre MKII guns C, T and earlier guns you can remove the small pin in the trigger which retains the magazine disconnect and the parts will drop out. Once you get to the MKII you have to remove the trigger assembly. This is where it gets a little tricky. MKII guns are generally easier than MKIIIs. Bllued guns are generally easier than epoxy finished guns. The worst are late model MKIII with the Epoxy finish. Some of these require a lot of force to get them out. I have seen guns where "gunsmiths" even marred the frame when attempting to remove the pin.
As others have stated the pin is directional. Right to left. If you do it the other way you can enlarge the hole in the frame which will result in a loose trigger pin which will walk out. Use the correct tools for the job. If you don't you might regret it. Make sure you tape off the area of your frame that might come into contact with the pin. If you bugger your frame there are solutions for this if it does happen but why be that guy. If it does happen to you get this pin.
Hi-Power "Self-Tightening" Trigger Pin Solution | BHSpringSolutions LLC
I highly recommend this tool from BHSS. It is like $20 shipped to you and will help you out. You will also get a free recoil spring with your purchase if you have the code.
Hi-Power Trigger Pin Removal Solution | BHSpringSolutions LLC
If you have a MKIII I suggest trying to remove the pin but if you run into a lot of resistance soak trigger pin area of the the frame with ballistol and let it penetrate the area. Then try it again working carefully. The BHSS videos on this are one of the better ones out there.
Now as to how much it is going to improve you trigger pull there is no definitive answer. In my experience just the removal of the part reduces the trigger .5 lb to 1.5lbs depending on the gun. Lost of people tell you it dropped X pounds but don't have scale and are going by feel. Don't believe them. What they are feeling is less drag and resistance and a smoother trigger which they translate to less pounds. Mags will now drop free and that is the only really reliable result of the mag disconnect removal.
Now for the downside of the mag disconnect removal. It can effect the reset of the pistol. It will become even more vague than it is in stock configuration which pretty vague vs say a Glock 19 or 1911. I recommend replacing the trigger return spring while you are in there to a heavier spring which will give you a more positive reset. Since you are in there replace the hammer spring with a 26# which will have more effect on the trigger weight than the mag disconnect. Some people go lighter but if you shoot the gun enough you will get light strikes and eventually many develop hammer follow if other specs are not adjusted to run that low a spring. All these springs can be bought from BHSS.
*This might sound like an ad for BHSS but it isn't. I am not a huge fan of them for anything but springs and tools but that is a topic for another day.
As to the origins of the mag disconnect it was part of the original contact request made by the French when the approached FN to build them a new pistol. They wanted it so that a gun should be presented for inspection and made safe by simply removing the mag. They also like the idea of a more safe mode because the French Army was conscripted and only marginally trained which was true of most Armies at the time.
They never adopted the pistol but the Belgians did in 1935 and they kept the magazine disconnect. The only guns ever to leave FN Herstal without them were some of the guns made under Nazi occupation of Herstal and they removed it for speed of production and because they did not deem it necessary.
Also remember how much you paid for my $.02 so take it with a grain of salt but some people say I know a bit about BHPs
Removing the magazine disconnect can be as easy as removing the retaining pin in the trigger without removing the trigger and shaking the gun until it falls out of the magwell or it can be require a hydraulic punch. If you are at all hesitant about the skills required to do this vs your gunsmithing skills I highly recommend getting it done by a good smith who is familiar with the BHP. It will cost you a lot more if you mar your BHP frame.
With FN/Brownings there are no hard and fast rules or dates as to which one you own. In general on Pre MKII guns C, T and earlier guns you can remove the small pin in the trigger which retains the magazine disconnect and the parts will drop out. Once you get to the MKII you have to remove the trigger assembly. This is where it gets a little tricky. MKII guns are generally easier than MKIIIs. Bllued guns are generally easier than epoxy finished guns. The worst are late model MKIII with the Epoxy finish. Some of these require a lot of force to get them out. I have seen guns where "gunsmiths" even marred the frame when attempting to remove the pin.
As others have stated the pin is directional. Right to left. If you do it the other way you can enlarge the hole in the frame which will result in a loose trigger pin which will walk out. Use the correct tools for the job. If you don't you might regret it. Make sure you tape off the area of your frame that might come into contact with the pin. If you bugger your frame there are solutions for this if it does happen but why be that guy. If it does happen to you get this pin.
Hi-Power "Self-Tightening" Trigger Pin Solution | BHSpringSolutions LLC
I highly recommend this tool from BHSS. It is like $20 shipped to you and will help you out. You will also get a free recoil spring with your purchase if you have the code.
Hi-Power Trigger Pin Removal Solution | BHSpringSolutions LLC
If you have a MKIII I suggest trying to remove the pin but if you run into a lot of resistance soak trigger pin area of the the frame with ballistol and let it penetrate the area. Then try it again working carefully. The BHSS videos on this are one of the better ones out there.
Now as to how much it is going to improve you trigger pull there is no definitive answer. In my experience just the removal of the part reduces the trigger .5 lb to 1.5lbs depending on the gun. Lost of people tell you it dropped X pounds but don't have scale and are going by feel. Don't believe them. What they are feeling is less drag and resistance and a smoother trigger which they translate to less pounds. Mags will now drop free and that is the only really reliable result of the mag disconnect removal.
Now for the downside of the mag disconnect removal. It can effect the reset of the pistol. It will become even more vague than it is in stock configuration which pretty vague vs say a Glock 19 or 1911. I recommend replacing the trigger return spring while you are in there to a heavier spring which will give you a more positive reset. Since you are in there replace the hammer spring with a 26# which will have more effect on the trigger weight than the mag disconnect. Some people go lighter but if you shoot the gun enough you will get light strikes and eventually many develop hammer follow if other specs are not adjusted to run that low a spring. All these springs can be bought from BHSS.
*This might sound like an ad for BHSS but it isn't. I am not a huge fan of them for anything but springs and tools but that is a topic for another day.
As to the origins of the mag disconnect it was part of the original contact request made by the French when the approached FN to build them a new pistol. They wanted it so that a gun should be presented for inspection and made safe by simply removing the mag. They also like the idea of a more safe mode because the French Army was conscripted and only marginally trained which was true of most Armies at the time.
They never adopted the pistol but the Belgians did in 1935 and they kept the magazine disconnect. The only guns ever to leave FN Herstal without them were some of the guns made under Nazi occupation of Herstal and they removed it for speed of production and because they did not deem it necessary.
Also remember how much you paid for my $.02 so take it with a grain of salt but some people say I know a bit about BHPs
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03hemi
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Generally yes, but...
I'm gonna go against the general consensus here and say removing it doesn't always improve the trigger, depends on the HP too? Plus, some trigger pins don't just simply come out like most say and I've seen some pretty butchered up trigger frames from people that ran into this.
Case in point: When I purchased my all stock 69 "T" series the shop had one of the brand new Nighthawk $3,500 HP for sale. Certainly theirs had a better trigger being from Nighthawk right?
Nope, we (employee and me) compared both guns side by side and the 69 "T" with the mag disconnect, still intact, had a very noticeably better trigger!
Plus, I have one of those that the trigger pin won't come out so easy on my Mk III, so I gave up on removing it to see if it improved the pull just before I butchered up my frame.
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Not a fair comparison. Just because the T series has stock parts there is no way to know if the gun was stock. Plus on top of that the T series hammer spring could have been weak causing for a better pull that would not be reliable.
When setting up a BHP the trigger weight goldilocks range is about 4lbs. Anything less than that is not going to hold for thousands of rounds. People set them up lighter but if you actually shoot the gun you will get hammer follow eventually which is the correctable with spring changes.
Also in the end the BHP was inconsistent in it production. You can pick up 2 T series BHPs built in the same year and one will have a nice trigger and the other will require two finger in the trigger to pull. I have seen factory BHPs of the same vintage range for 6lb triggers to 10 lbs triggers. Often it is luck of the draw.
Also for the record IMHO the T series is the most overrated vintage of the BHP ever produced. People pay way too much money for them as "collectibles" for all the wrong reasons.
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OP
Thanks, guys, for your very helpful input! Think I'll watch a couple of those recommended videos and then give it a try.
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