I want to hear more about NATO supplying medium range anti-aircraft missiles to help degrade Russian air superiority. Those Stingers are great, but missiles that can hit higher flyers.
The Russians have gone in
- Thread starter LVSteve
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I doubt Ukraine has trained operators.
Good point. Let's hope they are being trained up right now, or, that some of the foreign volunteers have the needed expertise.
Perhaps this French/Italian Aster would be a good candidate to supply: Aster (missile family - Wikipedia)
Perhaps this French/Italian Aster would be a good candidate to supply: Aster (missile family - Wikipedia)
LVSteve,
Riding my bike last night, these bumps in the road caused my Enduro to get sideways.
Looks like they're the missing letters after the last two letters in your thread's title.
S A N E
Riding my bike last night, these bumps in the road caused my Enduro to get sideways.
Looks like they're the missing letters after the last two letters in your thread's title.
S A N E
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From the WaPo:
A list of companies still doing business in Russia circulated. McDonald's, Coca-Cola and Starbucks soon pulled out.
"...Among those on the list of companies who had been keeping business as usual are major brands such as McDonald's, Starbucks and Coca-Cola. Before McDonald's on Tuesday said it would temporarily close its 850 restaurants in Russia, [Yale professor Jeffrey] Sonnenfeld said McDonald's was the "screaming anomaly that's bewildering to all its peers." It had remained operational in Russia even though it has control of more than 85 percent of its restaurants there, unlike companies such as Starbucks, which are hindered by franchise obligations. Starbucks also on Tuesday announced it would immediately halt business activity in Russia, including store operations and product shipment..."
"...Among those on the list of companies who had been keeping business as usual are major brands such as McDonald's, Starbucks and Coca-Cola. Before McDonald's on Tuesday said it would temporarily close its 850 restaurants in Russia, [Yale professor Jeffrey] Sonnenfeld said McDonald's was the "screaming anomaly that's bewildering to all its peers." It had remained operational in Russia even though it has control of more than 85 percent of its restaurants there, unlike companies such as Starbucks, which are hindered by franchise obligations. Starbucks also on Tuesday announced it would immediately halt business activity in Russia, including store operations and product shipment..."
OP
LVSteve
Member
If just half the stories about the S-400 system are true, you don't go anywhere near it in a conventional manned aircraft, and maybe not even a supposedly stealthy one.
OP
LVSteve
Member
Seems that the Pentagon have a very negative view on this plan. It starts with "nobody asked us" and goes downhill from there. I don't see Polish MiG-29s at Ramstein any time soon.
Pentagon says Poland'''s jet offer for Ukraine '''not tenable''' | AP News
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LVSteve
Member
^This. You don't get in an Aster SAM system the first time and start using it like you would a Glock down at the range.
State and DoD didn't coordinate?? Shocked; I am SHOCKED, I say!
So what is this, another russian tactic...poison Europe?
The Chernobyl plant in Ukraine remained disconnected from the grid due to damage inflicted by Russian occupying forces, sparking concerns of radioactive contamination from cooling spent nuclear fuel.
The Chernobyl plant in Ukraine remained disconnected from the grid due to damage inflicted by Russian occupying forces, sparking concerns of radioactive contamination from cooling spent nuclear fuel.
The Norseman
Member
Boycott
This alone should prompt all American companies
to leave all operations in Russia.
There is still a huge list of American Companies in
Russia.
This alone should prompt all American companies
to leave all operations in Russia.
There is still a huge list of American Companies in
Russia.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Well, it does seem a bit like Poland tried to hand us the spear and said "Here, you go and poke the bear."
Looking at a map, it would seem far easier for the Poles to repaint the MiGs, and Ukrainian pilots to take a quick drive across the border to fly them home. Ramstein is a bit out of the way, considering we're all trying to save fuel
Then all we have to do is reposition more of our air assets to cover Poland.
My guess is we were leaning on the Poles to hand over the planes. The Poles couldn't figure out how to get the planes into Ukraine without someone, presumably Ukrainian pilots, flying them from Poland to Ukraine, and any such flights would surely be detected by the Russians, provoking retaliation. The Poles figured if the US wanted to try it, have at it from someone else's country.
Not an unreasonable position.
Above surmise accounts for the US surprise at the sudden offer.
(Above surmise does not take into account, though, the US pledge to adhere to Article 5, collective defense, of the NATO treaty.)
Not an unreasonable position.
Above surmise accounts for the US surprise at the sudden offer.
(Above surmise does not take into account, though, the US pledge to adhere to Article 5, collective defense, of the NATO treaty.)
Stranger things have happened than public denials by all involved and suddenly aircraft materialize in Ukraine - unsure how. 
smithman 10
US Veteran
We must hope
That the Poles and President Biden can summon the courage AND devise a way to get some combat aircraft into Ukraine.
That the Poles and President Biden can summon the courage AND devise a way to get some combat aircraft into Ukraine.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Stranger things have happened than public denials by all involved and suddenly aircraft materialize in Ukraine - unsure how.
It's a careful balancing act. Lots of stuff gets done faster and more efficiently on the QT … but the Ukrainians and their supporters also are desperate to get maximum moral-building effect out of possibly encouraging news, so they blast out anything positive on social media.
President Zelensky also gets ahead of himself sometimes trying to shame Western countries into doing more. I think he may be hoping for the "ask for the most so you at least get something" effect. A good example are his calls for a no-fly zone.
Realistically, that is unlikely to happen unless NATO makes a joint decision to go to all-out war against Russia. Past no-fly zones were based on total airspace control and were enforced against an already defeated enemy (Iraq) or technically far inferior opponents (Balkans). A no-fly zone over Ukraine would be more like the one which the Luftwaffe tried to enforce for the RAF over Britain in 1940. It would require not just shooting down Russian planes, but hunting mobile air defense units on the ground and hitting air defense installations inside Russia.
That would mean war. And with Putin, we don't know whether there is such a thing as limited war. I don't see that even being considered by Western countries.
AJ
US Veteran
Fly the planes to Syria and change pilots. Then fly back to the Ukraine. Then the Syrians get the fall out..........it was just a thought!
I would like to think we would stay engaged until the end, but then I think of Venezuela. When's the last time you read anything about Maduro? Now were begging him to sell us oil. 10 bucks says we will abandon Ukraine and they will despise us in the end.
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