Has Smith & Wesson abandoned the .40 S&W cartridge?

[CouchPotato]

40 S&W isn't going anywhere.

A M&P Shield EZ doesn't completely make sense in .40 because it's designed for shooters with weaker hand strength.

The CSX is too new to be offered in .40 S&W.

Simultaneously, with the conditions of the ammo industry, for awhile 40 S&W was difficult to find.

With the prospect of another ammo shortage on the horizon, due to conflict in eastern Europe, I'd highly recommend platforms chambered in 9mm. If you already have something in 40 S&W, buy the ammo while you can.

Of all the available calibers, 9mm and .223/5.56 will generally be the easiest to find.

 

[sigp220.45]

.40 is the single most available round in stores around here now. Not particularly cheap, but definitely available.

 

[Echo40]

I understand that certain folks just plain dislike .40 S&W and they aren't going to change, so I won't both arguing with them on the subject. If you don't like .40 S&W, then that's fine, but must you always come into ever thread on the subject just to express your negative opinions on it?

Honestly, I'm not a fan of 9mm Luger, but I don't feel the need to tell everyone all about it or go making all sorts of assertions that it's a worthless cartridge, so I really don't understand why certain folks have to be so persistent with their insipid; ".40 is a bad cartridge for dumb people, but I'm totally not trolling, I'm just plain arrogant." shtick.

I already know where you stand on the subject because you repeat it ad nauseam at every available opportunity. I wasn't asking you.

Being a 40 fan and having owned a Taurus PT140 as well as currently own a Shield in 40, I can tell you, the 40 isn't fun to shoot in small compact guns. I like it much better in full size guns like the SD, 4006, etc. For small compact carry guns, I have migrated to the 9mm for recoil reasons.

Rosewood

I disagree, with the right gun, .40 S&W can be a lot of fun to shoot out of a subcompact.

Case in point...

This is my PC M&P40 Shield, modified with a Lone Wolf Alpha Wolf Threaded Match Grade Barrel and a Kaw Valley Precision Linear Compensator. I made it for kicks and grins, thought it would be a funny thing to show pics of, but it turned out to be fun to shoot as well. (Makes a really cool sound when it goes off too.)

 

[rosewood]

I too have a 4013tsw and dont mind shooting the 40 in it, but the shield is to light for my taste. Just my opinion.

 

[gnappi]

Well, I so not buy 9's and when S&W released the 5" FS M&P 2.0 I jumped on it. Then I got a threaded KKM barrel for it in .357 Sig. The comp makes it purr.

This looks like it may be my last S&W.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I shoot 40's and I personally don't care what the 40 bashers spout off................What do they know.......They are lemmings following off the cliff for whatever caliber LE changes to

 

[chief38]

While the S&W 40 is a ballistically good cartridge, there are just too many variations of time proven cartridges out there at this point. Since the FBI and other well known agency's have gone back to 9mm (from the .40), people often take their direction and indirect actions from them.

Gun manufacturers are in it for one reason only - to make money. They do not want to dedicate production to items on a downward slide and would rather make what they know will sell of the shelves almost as soon as they are place there.

Historically, cartridges that are "in-between" other time proven ones never seem to catch on for the long haul. Some examples are the .32 Magnum, .357 Maximum, 41 Magnum, .40, 10mm. 357 Sig, etc.

In these hard to get ammo times, it is much easier to concentrate on what really is in demand and leave the esoteric calibers behind for the hand loaders.

My prediction is the new 30 caliber that Federal just came out with recently will be history in a couple of years. To me it is a stupid solution to a non existent problem. Nothing more than a marketing ploy IMHO.

 

[cmj8591]

Since the FBI and other well known agency's have gone back to 9mm (from the .40), people often take their direction and indirect actions from them.


My prediction is the new 30 caliber that Federal just came out with recently will be history in a couple of years. To me it is a stupid solution to a non existent problem. Nothing more than a marketing ploy IMHO.

The FIB made the decision on the 9mm based more on political considerations than practical ones. They have a lot of accountants that have to be trained who never touched a gun until they got to Quantico. Of course most of their decisions on just about everything are political. Just wait a while. The FBI ballistic merry-go-round will come back around and they will be looking for bigger, heavier again.

I agree with with your thoughts the 30 SC. I think it's a non starter.

 

[Mark8]

.40S&W will outlive us all, the huge number of existing firearms chambered for the caliber alone guarantees that, and many more are still produced and sold each and every day.

Also, .40S&W is clearly #3 on the ranking list of semi-auto large caliber cartdriges, unchallenged. Lots of calibers further down the list will go extinct long before the demise of .40S&W.

 

[hammy5150]

I think .40 itself will last a while, but I also think unless the FBI has another abrupt change of heart that the last generation of duty guns chambered in .40 has already been made. I doubt the next generation of M&P will have an option for .40.

 

[chief38]

Not bad-mouthing the .40 at all. It is a VERY capable cartridge! The issue with it for many women and even some men is that the recoil is noticeably more than the 9mm we are all used to. This means slower less accurate shots and slowing down over all. Of all the relatively newer cartridges, yes the 40 is one of the better ones and will hang on for a long time as many people own them. I dare to say the cost of .40 cal. might be a factor as well for Gov't Agency's.

That said, LE Agency's usually opt for a one size fits all and I doubt it can be disputed that the 9mm is easier for all to shoot, lends itself for more rounds in the magazine, smaller/lighter in some gun models and there are a plethora of really great 9mm rounds on the market by every manufacturer known to man!

While I do believe the 40 will hang on a bit longer, I see sales in that caliber slowly slipping away from the time when the FBI called it nothing short of miraculous.

Time proven HG calibers:
22LR
9mm
38 Special
357 Magnum
44 Magnum
45 ACP
45 Colt

Yes, plenty of others in between, but these are the king of the HG hill!

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The FIB made the decision on the 9mm based more on political considerations than practical ones. They have a lot of accountants that have to be trained who never touched a gun until they got to Quantico. Of course most of their decisions on just about everything are political. Just wait a while. The FBI ballistic merry-go-round will come back around and they will be looking for bigger, heavier again.

I agree with with your thoughts the 30 SC. I think it's a non starter.

Yep just as soon as they get their butt handed to them like in the Miami shootout. They will go back to something bigger...........AND ALL the lemmings will follow

 

[CouchPotato]

30 SC does have some promise and potentially a real place in the market if we were to see a platform designed around the cartridge instead of a preexisting 9mm platform being adapted to the cartridge.

With 30 SC, it should be possible to achieve a level of gun thinness and magazine capacity that can not be achieved with 9mm.

I'd definitely rather carry 9mm, however I'd also rather carry 30 SC over .380 ACP.

Adding a couple rounds of capacity over 9mm is attractive to some, however not when you consider limited ammo availability.

30 SC needs it's own platform that fills a specific niche that 9mm can't easily fill. My mind immediately goes toward the 380 ACP platforms as potential candidates for 30 SC.

 

[USBP SW]

When your agency provides free ammo, you tend to take advantage. .40 S&W is a very good round and the original concept is still valid (ballistics similar to a .45 in a 9mm sized pistol). It has advantages and disadvantages, the ammo is more expensive than 9mm (doesn't affect me) but less expensive than .45. Magazine capacity is better than.45 but not as good as 9mm. The ammo availability has often been better than either 9mm or .45. The .40 pistols were often discounted because they were less popular but my biggest gripe was that the selection of pistols in the caliber were less than ideal, especially in California. I had a terrible time getting a full sized, steel 1911 platform in this caliber and every time I take it to the range, someone wants to talk me out of it.

 

[rainyknight]

Like many of you I really had no interest in the .40 as I saw it as an answer to a nonexistent problem. The infatuation I have for 3rd Gen S&W's led to not one but two CHP 4006TSW's. Then all of a sudden there are piles of .40 PD trade ins all over the place at cheap prices. I couldn't resist a Sig 226 for OTD at less than $300 from a local store. It was soon followed by a Glock 22 and during the recent ammo shortage .40 and .357 Sig were still available. One of my local stores even had PD turn in ammo and I was picking up .40 Federal HST for less than 9mm ball. That was a no brainer. I don't feel the .40 is any harder to control than 9mm, especially in the 4006. I'm not going to worry about it until they stop making ammo for it and in the meantime will enjoy some exceptional pistols that I got for a great price.

 

[CouchPotato]

Like many of you I really had no interest in the .40 as I saw it as an answer to a nonexistent problem. The infatuation I have for 3rd Gen S&W's led to not one but two CHP 4006TSW's. Then all of a sudden there are piles of .40 PD trade ins all over the place at cheap prices. I couldn't resist a Sig 226 for OTD at less than $300 from a local store. It was soon followed by a Glock 22 and during the recent ammo shortage .40 and .357 Sig were still available. One of my local stores even had PD turn in ammo and I was picking up .40 Federal HST for less than 9mm ball. That was a no brainer. I don't feel the .40 is any harder to control than 9mm, especially in the 4006. I'm not going to worry about it until they stop making ammo for it and in the meantime will enjoy some exceptional pistols that I got for a great price.

As others have stated, 40 S&W blends the horsepower of 45 ACP with the capacity of 9mm. It's an excellent compromise round between the two calibers.

In a handgun that has the wrong ergonomics for your particular hand, such as me with my 12 year old Springfield XDM, you'll definitely notice the difference in controlability and recoil. I'll fatigue much more quickly on a full size XDM in 40 S&W than I will with 9mm, even with Talon grip tape on the XDM.

A decade or more ago, there weren't as many good options for 9mm JHP as far as terminal ballistics go and there were plenty of reasons to not have faith in 9mm. Hydra Shok was the only choice for many in 9mm.

9mm has come a long way, and there's many very good options for ammo available, however the terminal ballistics data shows that 40 S&W is still superior to 9mm.

 

[BigBoy99]

30 SC does have some promise and potentially a real place in the market if we were to see a platform designed around the cartridge instead of a preexisting 9mm platform being adapted to the cartridge.

With 30 SC, it should be possible to achieve a level of gun thinness and magazine capacity that can not be achieved with 9mm.

I'd definitely rather carry 9mm, however I'd also rather carry 30 SC over .380 ACP.

Adding a couple rounds of capacity over 9mm is attractive to some, however not when you consider limited ammo availability.

30 SC needs it's own platform that fills a specific niche that 9mm can't easily fill. My mind immediately goes toward the 380 ACP platforms as potential candidates for 30 SC.

There is a .30 cal semi-auto round which has been around for over a 100 years - the 7.62x25mm cartridge! Why not build something around the caliber and make it it a double stacked magazine to boot? I guess the bean counters like new things because it means more money will be spent buying the "new stuff."

 

[CouchPotato]

There is a .30 cal semi-auto round which has been around for over a 100 years - the 7.62x25mm cartridge! Why not build something around the caliber and make it it a double stacked magazine to boot? I guess the bean counters like new things because it means more money will be spent buying the "new stuff."

Cuz... it's Russian!!

'Merica

 

[N4KVE]

30 SC is the new 45 GAP. A solution for a non existent problem. We'll see how long it's around. GARY.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Anybody here remember the 9mm rimmed Federal????..........That cartridge took off like a turtle at Daytona.