Why Won’t People Carry?

[BB57]

I have had this issue discussed with me countless times. I don't initiate these discussions but the people who have initiated them have been aware of my LE and teaching backgrounds.

By far the most common rationale expressed to me is the statement 'I just could not take a human life'. That even extends into their home, the protection of their families and loved ones. I tell these people I could not disagree more, but I have found it is pointless for me to push it further. They are betting the odds will favor them and a deadly threat will never occur. They are entrenched in their emotional state.

We moved from a typical liberal Calif county where I worked, and that is where I most commonly encountered that attitude. These people, for the most part, were not anti-2A. They favored the 2A - for other people.

I seldom run into the attitude now. We now live in a rural mountain area. People here tend to be self-sufficient and that includes being armed. Sheriffs support this concept through their issuance of CCW permits. Unless a person is otherwise legally precluded from possessing a firearm, they will be able to get a permit.

Having lived in both urban and (now)rural areas, it has been my observation that overall philosophies, attitudes and thought processes differ widely. It is far more reasonable where we now live. One of the countless reasons why we do live here.

It's complicated. Growing up and living in South Dakota guns were just tools and concealed carry was just another way of using a tool. At the time concealed carry permits cost $5 and took about 3 days to get form the local sheriffs office.

When I worked in DC and lived in Arlington DC, it was much more complicated. The staff in Arlington country made it as hard as possible to get a concealed carry permit - actually violating the law in the process as northern VA was out off step with the rest of the state - but knew that growth and numbers were eventually going to be on their side)

Here in eastern NC it's much more SD like, except concealed carry permits are much more expensive to get, with additional training requirements.

When I moved here but still had to do a couple days every two weeks in DC, I had my NC application notarized at a branch of my bank in DC. I expected some anti-gun side eye comments but got exactly the opposite. The branch manager went off for about 10 minutes about the harm gun control caused in DC and how criminals came over from MD and VA to prey on DC residents that they knew were unarmed. (He wasn't wrong as crime rates in adjacent counties in DC, VA and MD confirm that.). He was extremely pro 2A.

Co workers were generally anti-gun, with a big caveat. Most regarded people who carry guns as unstable red necks. When a few found out I conceal carried that attitude didn't change, but the added "except you, you're normal". They were not entirely wrong. I am a pretty normal example of the kind of people who conceal carry. They were however wrong in assuming most individuals who conceal carry us are ignorant unstable rednecks. The majority of us who are not probably need to help the few that are present themselves a bit better.

Some of those anti gun coworkers also expressed "I could never take another human life" (ironically while often developing bad policy and regulations that did exactly that - just not to people they never personally had to meet). However, I suspect each and everyone of the, would go down fighting tooth and nail to preserve their lives and the lives of their kids if they were faced with a lethal threat. Those kind of high minded naive sentiments go out the window when a threat presents itself - assuming the person doesn't just panic and freeze.

Here in NC, I also see a large percentage of defensive handgun sales going to women, many of them minority women and or liberal, who have come to realize the police are never going to arrive in time to save them if they are threatened with assault, rape or murder. As society in general continues to become less civil and crime rates rise, the second amendment becomes an increasingly common bond.

 

[CouchPotato]

Some people prefer to stick their head in the sand and pretend the risk does not exist. Some can't even handle the subject and claim that simply discussing it gets them too scared and too upset. Some of those people often will go on a rant about how guns should be illegal... and then I'll point out that crime should be illegal which usually short circuits their brain a little.

In my opinion it's a mental disorder.

To them I always argue that the point of discussing it, and preparing for it, is so you don't actually have to worry about it and stress about it, because you'll be prepared and equipped to handle the situation if something does happen.

 

[Rustyt1953]

...In my opinion it's a mental disorder...

As I posted earlier, most of my extended family have chosen not to carry. The reasons are myriad but valid in their eyes. It is entirely their choice afforded us by the Declaration Of Independence.

They will all be happy to know that they have a mental disorder.

 

[biku324]

Well; I carried always from '76 through about 2002 - the first years because I had a cash business and we'd been robbed. From '79 on I was a cop, and it took me about a year after retirement to decide I could chill down a bit.

But then I went overseas. In Manila and most places, there was crime, but foreigners couldn't legally carry. I had no troubles there, nor even in the conflict regions of Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago. Baghdad didn't count, because you couldn't leave secured areas without a PSD. Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia you can't carry either, but no troubles even though I walked all around Sarajevo, Neum, Mostar and Banja Luka.

Bottom line is, nearly all folks are unlikely to suffer from being unarmed. Now that I'm home, I carry when going to areas where people at high risk of criminal behavior congregate or frequent, but not always otherwise.

Did I mention a firearm 24/365 is a PITA?

 

[John Patrick]

… Some of those people often will go on a rant about how guns should be illegal... and then I'll point out that crime should be illegal which usually short circuits their brain a little.

…

… .

I got a good chuckle out of that!

 

[Brassmonkey55]

Well in Canada we can't, period. And if someone storms my home and I have no choice but to use deadly force I will go broke with legal fees and go to jail anyway. Still, my wife and daughter will be alive so there's that factor. I hope I never need to find out.
I train my daughter on situational awareness, sitting with an exit, and a view of the entrance, and she carries pepper spray. Life goes on.

Having left the private range I belong to on several occasions because of unsafe gun handling by members I am glad they don't have a gun in a crisis.

 

[RetCapt]

Biku makes what I think is a valid point about not carrying all the time. I realize, from what I have read here if nothing else, that some will adamantly disagree with this. But I follow the same practice.

The nearest town (pop approx 3k) is about 30 miles distant. I carry on the trip because if I run across an injured animal I want to humanely dispatch it. But once I get to our destination I lock it in the car while we make our usual stops.

The majority of feedback I have gotten from my CCW students is that they wanted to obtain a permit to be able to be legally armed while driving to, and being in, more enlightened areas of the state where there is a greater possibility of needing a firearm for defensive purposes. The essential contradiction is that these legal CCW holders are going armed into areas where the local political environment is such that the residents of those areas, who should be able to protect themselves and their loved ones, are so disenfranchised as to be unable to exercise their 2A rights. But, these politicians are elected by the voters. That is where the buck stops.

What I have always told my students, and they are looking for guidance from one who is experienced, and has had the opportunity to give the issue some thought, is that there can be a balance. Preparation over paranoia.

 

[rockquarry]

Biku makes what I think is a valid point about not carrying all the time. I realize, from what I have read here if nothing else, that some will adamantly disagree with this. But I follow the same practice.

The nearest town (pop approx 3k) is about 30 miles distant. I carry on the trip because if I run across an injured animal I want to humanely dispatch it. But once I get to our destination I lock it in the car while we make our usual stops.

The majority of feedback I have gotten from my CCW students is that they wanted to obtain a permit to be able to be legally armed while driving to, and being in, more enlightened areas of the state where there is a greater possibility of needing a firearm for defensive purposes. The essential contradiction is that these legal CCW holders are going armed into areas where the local political environment is such that the residents of those areas, who should be able to protect themselves and their loved ones, are so disenfranchised as to be unable to exercise their 2A rights. But, these politicians are elected by the voters. That is where the buck stops.

What I have always told my students, and they are looking for guidance from one who is experienced, and has had the opportunity to give the issue some thought, is that there can be a balance. Preparation over paranoia.

Good post, the elements of which are not often mentioned in these discussions.

 

[oldiegoldie]

Well in Canada we can't, period. And if someone storms my home and I have no choice but to use deadly force I will go broke with legal fees and go to jail anyway. Still, my wife and daughter will be alive so there's that factor. I hope I never need to find out.
I train my daughter on situational awareness, sitting with an exit, and a view of the entrance, and she carries pepper spray. Life goes on.

Having left the private range I belong to on several occasions because of unsafe gun handling by members I am glad they don't have a gun in a crisis.[/QUOTE

there are states here that the same can happen. i'm fortunate to live in a state where i can defend my life with a gun. i would still suffer some legal fees [most likely] if i had to defend myself in my home. it's just a sign of the times.

 

[pharmer]

Lots of thoughtful responses. I'm 60 miles from the crime scene, I have also had a valid Florida CW permit continuously since 1988. Since retirement in December I am not often unarmed. At "the beach" (we have about 2,000 miles of them) I am unlikely to have a firearm. Most assume the beach is "chill", me included. Point is if a nutjob decided to kill any one of us in a "sneak attack" chances are at least 50/50 they win. Keeping these folks locked up so as to cut down on their behavior doesn't seem to be an option at present though. Joe

 

[7shooter]

There are a lot of irresponsible or air-headed people out there that, despite lacking a criminal record, I would hate to be anywhere near if they were in possession of a firearm.
Even if they receive training, it just doesn't sink in. Maybe it's a lack of common sense? Maybe some of them are just aware enough to know they shouldn't be handling/owning a firearm?

I quit a gun club where, after starting a weekly defensive pistol league, bullet holes started appearing in the roof and walls. Some members, despite years of experience and "training", couldn't get through a match without muzzle sweeping other members. There was more than one accidental discharge, too.
Would you feel safer knowing one or more of these guys lived in your town?

There's a lot of responsibility involved in just handling a firearm in a controlled environment such as a organized shooting range, let alone out in the general public while under duress.
I just hope that the people who do carry have very carefully considered the responsibility they have assumed and the consequences of a bad decision on their part.

It's not all "Big hero shoots the bad guy and saves the day"!

I shot at a second story indoor prison range that had numerous holes in the roof that let shafts of light in. The corrections officers said it was from state patrol training.

 

[S-W4EVER]

I have had this issue discussed with me countless times. I don't initiate these discussions but the people who have initiated them have been aware of my LE and teaching backgrounds.

By far the most common rationale expressed to me is the statement 'I just could not take a human life'. That even extends into their home, the protection of their families and loved ones. I tell these people I could not disagree more, but I have found it is pointless for me to push it further. They are betting the odds will favor them and a deadly threat will never occur. They are entrenched in their emotional state.

We moved from a typical liberal Calif county where I worked, and that is where I most commonly encountered that attitude. These people, for the most part, were not anti-2A. They favored the 2A - for other people...

+1. The same people whose "defense plan" is to yell "HELP ME!" when they're being accosted... (and the armed citizen can assume all the liability if/when they act).

 

[sotexas]

It's their right to not carry and I don't know why the assumption is always "If Joe and Jane citizen were armed, they could have prevented their untimely death." If you have not morally/psychologically committed to firing your weapon at another human, then carrying is pointless. Not everyone that owns and even carries a gun could shoot a fellow human.

 

[Imissedagain]

Many cannot afford a Smith or other quality hand gun as they spent their inheritance and still owe the Taekwondo club for 7 more years on the lesson contract.

There's the... "swirling belts of many colors kata", that confuses the dangerous critters and can cause bullets to miss their intended target.
The "Melting Bullet with Burning Eyes Kata" lesson package requires deep pockets as well.

 

[steelslaver]

Millions of people swim in the ocean. Some of those get eaten by sharks. The vast majority do not.

Millions of people ride in cars everyday. Some of the get killed in accidents. The majority do not.

Millions of people go out and about everyday without a gun. Some of them get robbed and murdered. The vast majority do not.

 

[ladder13]

I never take a gun with me on a plane, my choice. I don't take a gun when I travel by car 2-3 times a year, to PA or NY. Too many gun unfriendly jurisdictions in the way.

Not interested in stopping multiple times to store a gun.

Somehow I've survived.

I've carried over 35 years.

 

[waffles]

It's a bit depressing to see all the comments about people who don't choose to carry being lazy, irresponsible, unaware of their surroundings, or suffering from a mental disorder. These people were the victims of a horrible but rare crime. A gun might have helped, and I'd certainly want one, but using the information they had available to them they chose, as the vast majority of people in the world do, not to go about their day armed. Unlike almost everybody else, they ran afoul of a violent criminal.

We're perfectly comfortable as a community calling mass shootings rare horrible events that shouldn't be used to justify gun control, and that same reasoning applies to this. Doesn't change the fact that we're still all far more likely to be the victims of a fatal car crash, suicide, heart disease, COVID, or whatever else compared to being a murder victim. Thinking that someone absolutely needs to carry a gun or they're irresponsible is silly.

I ride bikes a lot. Sometimes I carry a gun while doing so, and it's pain in the butt on longer rides. It also means you can't have some drinks (these people were on the way back from "bike week" festivities, and if there are two groups that enjoy some beers its Floridians and bike people), it means you have to dress different, and it means you have to be concerned with retention of the gun as you bike. That's all for someone who likes guns and has their carry permit (or lives in a permitless carry state).

Having a realistic assessment of the risks of daily life and choosing not to carry a gun is fine. Choosing to carry a gun based on that assessment is fine too, but it does not make one superior to those that don't.

 

[rockquarry]

It's a bit depressing to see all the comments about people who don't choose to carry being lazy, irresponsible, unaware of their surroundings, or suffering from a mental disorder. These people were the victims of a horrible but rare crime. A gun might have helped, and I'd certainly want one, but using the information they had available to them they chose, as the vast majority of people in the world do, not to go about their day armed. Unlike almost everybody else, they ran afoul of a violent criminal.

We're perfectly comfortable as a community calling mass shootings rare horrible events that shouldn't be used to justify gun control, and that same reasoning applies to this. Doesn't change the fact that we're still all far more likely to be the victims of a fatal car crash, suicide, heart disease, COVID, or whatever else compared to being a murder victim. Thinking that someone absolutely needs to carry a gun or they're irresponsible is silly.

I ride bikes a lot. Sometimes I carry a gun while doing so, and it's pain in the butt on longer rides. It also means you can't have some drinks (these people were on the way back from "bike week" festivities, and if there are two groups that enjoy some beers its Floridians and bike people), it means you have to dress different, and it means you have to be concerned with retention of the gun as you bike. That's all for someone who likes guns and has their carry permit (or lives in a permitless carry state).

Having a realistic assessment of the risks of daily life and choosing not to carry a gun is fine. Choosing to carry a gun based on that assessment is fine too, but it does not make one superior to those that don't.

Good points well said.

 

[biku324]

Not everyone that owns and even carries a gun could shoot a fellow human.

The ones who clearly just can't wait to shoot concern me. We've all seen/heard them.

 

[WR Moore]

Teaching people how to shoot really isn't all that hard. OTOH, teaching them when they can legally shoot can be challenging in some cases.

Good reason to use videos for the presentation (can be shown in court to demonstrate exactly what was taught) and have well written hold harmless agreements.