STORMINORMAN
Member
In the words of Coach Corso, "Not so fast...!"
I thought your post was most apropos. And correct as well!
Cheers!
.45 Colt and .45 ACP Revolver
- Thread starter jimmyj
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In the words of Coach Corso, "Not so fast...!"
I thought your post was most apropos. And correct as well!
Cheers!
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In the words of Coach Corso, "Not so fast...!"
I thought your post was most apropos. And correct as well!
Cheers!
I've had several .45 Colt handguns and several rifles and one carbine for the cartridge in the last forty years. I've also loaded for the .45 ACP and Auto Rim in a number of revolvers for a long time. I've had no use for hot loads in the .45 Colt.
Also after working with the .44 Special for many years, I've found it gives up nothing to the .45 Colt. I eventually lost all interest in the .45 Colt. Too many different cartridges that have virtually the same performance, I suppose, but I'll not try to talk anyone out of any of them. They're all good. Like other revolver cartridges or long guns that use revolver ammo, cast bullets are best and really all that's necessary for these guns.
My remaining .45 Colts, an S&W 25-5 that I bought new in 1980 and the Winchester Trapper carbine purchased new about ten years later are going with me to the next big gun show instead of continuing to take up safe space.
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The best way is to modify a 45 colt cylinder like this one
The 45 acp moon clip fits in the recess, 45 colts rims headspace by lip left on outside
Similar to this 38 special cylinder modified to use 9mm or 38 specials
The lengthen cylinder so 45 colt will headspace on case mouth will also work. Except for 25-3 and earlier, 45 colt cylinders are longer than 45acp cylinders as some of the heavy bullets are 2 long for the shorter 25-3 which used 357 and 45acp length cylinders. But most factory rounds would work in those length cylinders. S&W did make a few real short acp cylinders with long barrel shanks. Those would be a poor choice to convert.
I have a bunch of 45 colts but, now only 2 use the modified cylinder to fire both. The 4" 2nd up on right is converted from a 629-1 and the blue 3 1/4" made from a highly modified 1917 on lower left.
The 45 acp moon clip fits in the recess, 45 colts rims headspace by lip left on outside
Similar to this 38 special cylinder modified to use 9mm or 38 specials
The lengthen cylinder so 45 colt will headspace on case mouth will also work. Except for 25-3 and earlier, 45 colt cylinders are longer than 45acp cylinders as some of the heavy bullets are 2 long for the shorter 25-3 which used 357 and 45acp length cylinders. But most factory rounds would work in those length cylinders. S&W did make a few real short acp cylinders with long barrel shanks. Those would be a poor choice to convert.
I have a bunch of 45 colts but, now only 2 use the modified cylinder to fire both. The 4" 2nd up on right is converted from a 629-1 and the blue 3 1/4" made from a highly modified 1917 on lower left.
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STORMINORMAN
Member
rockquarry:
Do you happen to know: does your 25-5 chamber the longer 454 Casull brass as FortuneCookie45LC has experienced in his and warned about in a series of YouTube videos?
If so, that's a BIG KABOOM! just waiting to happen!
That cartridge was, from a factual standpoint, developed long after there were already S&W revolvers chambered for the 45 Colt round.
Cheers!
P.S. If they do I don't want to be around if someone tries to fire one off: that's for SURE! I guess I should really compare it more to shooting a "Ruger Only!" reload in an original 45 Colt SAA: hard to blame that one on Sam Colt!
Do you happen to know: does your 25-5 chamber the longer 454 Casull brass as FortuneCookie45LC has experienced in his and warned about in a series of YouTube videos?
If so, that's a BIG KABOOM! just waiting to happen!
That cartridge was, from a factual standpoint, developed long after there were already S&W revolvers chambered for the 45 Colt round.
Cheers!
P.S. If they do I don't want to be around if someone tries to fire one off: that's for SURE! I guess I should really compare it more to shooting a "Ruger Only!" reload in an original 45 Colt SAA: hard to blame that one on Sam Colt!
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I don't have any idea if my gun will chamber .454 Casull and I don't watch the YouTube gun maestros.
But...an old edition of CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD shows the two cartridges as having identical dimensions. Assuming that information is correct , the Casull cartridge should fit perfectly in any .45 Colt chamber.
STORMINORMAN
Member
Well, they sure do appear to be a different length (and "breed of cat"?) now-a-days...!
That, and the over 50K pressure for the 454 Casull!
Cheers!
P.S. Not everything on the YouTube is worthless: I actually thought the guy in this case was very sincere and really concerned about somebody getting hurt. Had a friend just this last week trying to put a 270 WSM in his 270 Winchester Savage magazine: needless to say they wouldn't chamber, but you really had to look closely on the box to see the WSM vs. the "270 Winchester" markings.
That, and the over 50K pressure for the 454 Casull!
Cheers!
P.S. Not everything on the YouTube is worthless: I actually thought the guy in this case was very sincere and really concerned about somebody getting hurt. Had a friend just this last week trying to put a 270 WSM in his 270 Winchester Savage magazine: needless to say they wouldn't chamber, but you really had to look closely on the box to see the WSM vs. the "270 Winchester" markings.
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You're probably right about YouTube. What little of it I've seen that was gun or handloading related was pretty much unimpressive, sort of like watching "The View". There's probably some good stuff on YouTube as well as a lot of not-so-good.
The 45 Colt & 454 Casull do not have identical dimensions. That reference is wrong.
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Most revolver & pistol offshoot cartridges generally have brass at least 1/8" (.125") longer than their parent cartridge's brass, ie: the 357 Mag over the 38 Special, & the 44 Mag over the 44 Special, both are .125" or longer than their parent.
The 454 Casull is an exception with it's brass a little less than 1/10" longer than it's 45 Colt parent, at just .098" longer.
Previously I checked & found that some factory 454 Casull rounds I had could be chambered, & the cylinder closed, in my M25-13 45 Colt, though none of my handloads would.
Something about it's roll-crimp made the difference.
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Are you saying starting with a 45ACP cylinder & lengthening the chamber for 45 Colt?
Again, 45 Colt chambers don't have a shoulder for the case mouth to headspace on. 45 Colts headspace on their rim.
45ACP cylinders have a shoulder for the case mouth to headspace on.
How is a factory 45 Colt cartridge, with a roll-crimp, going to headspace on it's case mouth consistently?
Please explain.
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The 45 Colt & 454 Casull do not have identical dimensions. That reference is wrong.
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Most revolver & pistol offshoot cartridges generally have brass at least 1/8" (.125") longer than their parent cartridge's brass, ie: the 357 Mag over the 38 Special, & the 44 Mag over the 44 Special, both are .125" or longer than their parent.
The 454 Casull is an exception with it's brass a little less than 1/10" longer than it's 45 Colt parent, at just .098" longer.
Previously I checked & found that some factory 454 Casull rounds I had could be chambered, & the cylinder closed, in my M25-13 45 Colt, though none of my handloads would.
Something about it's roll-crimp made the difference.
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Based on your photo, the dimensions from "Cartridges of the World" is incorrect. My apology for providing bad information.
No apology needed. Likely just a typo in the book that wasn't caught in time & an honest mistake. 
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You are correct. Roll crimped 45 colts will not headspace consistently depending on amount of crimp. Using hand loads with a taper crimp like an acp would work fine. But in my opinion it is a poor method of making a dual cylinder. Much better off starting with a colt cylinder and having it cut for acp in full moon clips. If you want more case capacity lengthening the chambers and using hand loaded 45 Winchester mag brass is another option.
You can also take an N frame 357 cylinder and ream it to 45 colt so the B/C gap is close. then instead of adjusting the frame lug, have a .040 shelf cut in the rear OD of that cylinder to clearance the longer length of the frames acp lug. I did that once and it worked well.
45ACP conversion to 45WSM
I've talked about in other threads but since it's come up again I'll mention here too.
In my forum thread When .45ACP In Your S&W 625 Isn't Quite Enough… Step Up to the 45 WSM I detailed how to convert a 45ACP revolver to 45WSM & get many of the 45 COLT advantages at a minimal cost, and still be able to shoot 45ACP, from a shortened 45 Win Magnum case loaded to 45 Super pressures, giving you near 45 Colt powder capacities in a lightly modified 45ACP revolver.
Jacketed bullets are taper crimped & headspace on the case mouth, just like a 45ACP does, & can be shot with or without moonclips.
Bullets with a cannelure/crimping groove, either jacketed or cast lead, can be roll crimped but require moonclips for proper headspacing.
Personally I've never liked cramming a heavier than standard weight bullet in "pumped up" small capacity cases which is why I thought a longer than 45ACP case length would be great fun for heavier loads in 45ACP revolvers
Some recent chronograph tests have netted Power Pistol propelled 230gr JHPs in the upper 1100 fps range at +700 ft/lbs and some Blue Dot loads over 1200 fps.
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I've talked about in other threads but since it's come up again I'll mention here too.
In my forum thread When .45ACP In Your S&W 625 Isn't Quite Enough… Step Up to the 45 WSM I detailed how to convert a 45ACP revolver to 45WSM & get many of the 45 COLT advantages at a minimal cost, and still be able to shoot 45ACP, from a shortened 45 Win Magnum case loaded to 45 Super pressures, giving you near 45 Colt powder capacities in a lightly modified 45ACP revolver.
Jacketed bullets are taper crimped & headspace on the case mouth, just like a 45ACP does, & can be shot with or without moonclips.
Bullets with a cannelure/crimping groove, either jacketed or cast lead, can be roll crimped but require moonclips for proper headspacing.
Personally I've never liked cramming a heavier than standard weight bullet in "pumped up" small capacity cases which is why I thought a longer than 45ACP case length would be great fun for heavier loads in 45ACP revolvers
Some recent chronograph tests have netted Power Pistol propelled 230gr JHPs in the upper 1100 fps range at +700 ft/lbs and some Blue Dot loads over 1200 fps.
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I really like your idea, but then I am a moon clip kinda guy..........
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You can use them to your heart's content with the 45WSM, no problem.
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StrawHat
Member
Perhaps it is time to revisit this thread from a dozen years ago.
1950 Model 45 Target - Found in Tucson
Kevin
1950 Model 45 Target - Found in Tucson
Kevin
DWalt
Member
Early .454 Casull loads used .45 Colt cases, back before SAAMI standardization and factory production. For quite a while, .454 ammunition was pretty much a handloading proposition. Some old reloading data references use the .45 Colt case length.
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I have revolvers in 45LC and revolvers in 45acp. No need to modify either one.
