The Russians have gone in

[UncleEd]

One of Mark Felton's latest
videos is on the Azov Battalion,
the so-called Nazi unit of the
Ukraine armed forces.

Interesting background with the
roots of the unit going back to
WWII.

 

[Rudi]

One of Mark Felton's latest
videos is on the Azov Battalion,
the so-called Nazi unit of the
Ukraine armed forces.

Interesting background with the
roots of the unit going back to
WWII.

I watched it last night. Very interesting.

 

[woodsltc]

I haven't been daily following this thread but I've gone back and quickly read through ........ lot's of knowledgeable comments and insight and some not so.

IMO, and this not from any kind of experience on my part.....wars are so fluid and changeable that only "time will tell" how this will end and who the victor will be. I only pray that Putin will be held responsible for his atrocities and that justice will prevail.

Don

 

[Absalom]

After the Russian military publicized their "second phase" goal, a look at the map (from today) shows possibilities and likelihoods:

Mariupol will fall. Strategically, two questions will have to wait for an answer:

1. Will the Russians start a new offensive west along the coast toward Odessa and a landbridge with Transnistria?

2. How big of a battle for the Ukrainian Donbas salient will the Russians attempt? Options here are:

2a. the Kursk model, a two-prong attack from north and south toward Dnipro, to ultimately encircle and destroy the bulk of Ukrainian forces holding the salient.

2b. the WW I model: more or less frontal attacks along the salient trying to push the Ukrainians back, out of the Donbas as far as feasible.

Any competent general with confidence in his forces at the present force ratios would go for 2a, but I have my doubts about both Russian competence and confidence, and 2a is the kind of plan that either works or fails, while 2b is fluid and would allow Putin to declare "mission accomplished" wherever he chooses or is compelled to do so.

 

[smithman 10]

Hitler lost at Kursk

Remember. Biggest tank battle ever. And his generals were surely more competent than the current Russian brass.

But maybe the Ukrainians should do a strategic withdrawal and prepare a defense in depth with all their new whizbang weapons from the west (155 mm howitzers should be good for killing advancing Russians).

If they stay in the salient trying to hold territory they will gradually be worn down or, if the Russians are at all competent, cut off with no escape route.

Hard to know what to do but the Ukrainians I would think need to conserve their resources in men and material. Once the battle started there was no way out of Mariupol but hopefully they won't sacrifice a lot more to defend what they probably cannot hold in the east.

 

[ladder13]

Some don't believe this is a "war" ?? What is it ? a "skirmish" like Nam and Korea ?? Putin has announced his plans to spread the "skirmish" to Moldova.

They're going all the way to Odessa and cut off access to the Black Sea.

 

[glenwolde]

Netherlands is supplying Ukraine with German PZH 2000 artillery and Germany is supplying the ammo for them.

The Dutch Are Sending Huge German Armored Howitzers To Ukraine

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

Wow. That's a lot of cannon right there.

 

[ladder13]

An opinion as valid as any. Not a rosy picture for anyone.


Opinion: A negotiated peace is the only way to end Russia's war on Ukraine - CNN

 

[UncleEd]

An opinion as valid as any. Not a rosy picture for anyone.


Opinion: A negotiated peace is the only way to end Russia's war on Ukraine - CNN

The core idea of the opinion piece
is that Ukraine agrees not to join
NATO. Zelensky has tendered
that view as a way to halt the
war.

Mr. Putin, pull your troops out of
Ukraine and a deal can be signed.

Of course, Mr. Putin would balk
at Ukraine integrating with the
EU and he wouldn't want to give
up areas seized in 2014.

And he'd wait to attack again,
all at his convenience.

The economic aspects of the
opinion piece say that the
West is lucky it still exists.

 

[UncleEd]

Some 20 years ago Poland and
other former Warsaw Pact nations
joined NATO. At the time I saw
it as a probable sore point with
Russia and not needed.

Today, can't be more grateful that
Poland and others joined NATO.

Without having done so, Russia
today would not only be showing
its aggression toward UKraine but
also Poland and the Baltic states
which more recently joined NAtO.

Putin has always resented NATO
and actually saw a chance it would
evaporate a few years ago. Now
I'm sure he's irritated that NATO
is stronger than ever.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

Please define "win" as you use that word in this context...thanks.

Use of NBC warfare. It is coming quicker than you think. I am surprised it hasn't happened already.

It would be a Pyrrhic victory most certainly and Putin would get nothing more than lifeless real estate...but in his eyes, it would be a win.

 

[Absalom]

Any Russian pull-out is completely unrealistic unless Putin falls for internal reasons and the Russian Federation disintegrates the way the USSR did.

Without that, there will be an eventual ceasefire, endless talks, frequent ceasefire violations, maybe a temporary-permanent armistice line like has existed in Korea for decades. There will be more wars in the future, likely by the Russians trying to expand their part of Ukraine. Like the Palestine/Israel issue, it will become a continuous open sore, with zero chance for a clear-cut victory for either side.

And the people will continue to suffer.

 

[LVSteve]

Netherlands is supplying Ukraine with German PZH 2000 artillery and Germany is supplying the ammo for them.

The Dutch Are Sending Huge German Armored Howitzers To Ukraine

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

I saw a PZH 2000 demo on the Military Channel some years ago. The autoloader gives it an impressive volley fire with simultaneous impact capability. Then it can almost instantly up sticks and move before any counter battery fire.

 

[biku324]

And we use our best minds to develop these things.

 

[arjay]

And we use our best minds to develop these things.

Our violent side is incredibly expensive. Haven't a clue what the solution is.

 

[Kevin J.]

Yep………..

 

[Greyman50]

Looks they have some new name for " Time on Target" fire. US had such a tracked gun few years ago and did not develop it for ?????
Regardless imagine 6-8 of these guns firing 6 rounds each that all reach a target at the same time exploding 250'-300' above attacking forces.
BTW, the US first used the new secret posit fuse in the Battle of the Bulge. One reason the tide was turned in that battle.

 

[UncleEd]

I saw a PZH 2000 demo on the Military Channel some years ago. The autoloader gives it an impressive volley fire with simultaneous impact capability. Then it can almost instantly up sticks and move before any counter battery fire.

Based on the story and
demonstration:

Impressive but perhaps overly
complicated and certainly too
heavy for road and field conditions
that are not ideal.

The howitzers the U.S. is sending,
has sent, are towed weapons and
in the end perhaps more suitable
to Ukraine's needs.

 

[ladder13]

and are staying in.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I read this morning that the latest estimate (from Ukrainians) is that Putin has now been responsible for about 30,000 of his soldiers being killed there.

I wonder how many of the Russian people have heard this? How many Russian mothers have no idea what happened to their sons? How many more Russian general heads will roll?

I suspect Putin cannot keep his fatality figures totally secret from his people...

John