New to reloading, need help with powder measuring

[Rex B]

Just for perspective, I started out last week trying to load 32 ACP with help from the THR folks. I aborted that for a number of reasons, including that my brass was almost all Berdan primered. That group all tried to talk me out of using the Titegroup. So my Intro to Handloading has been less than satisfying so far.
I was told "You should start with something easy, like 38 Special!

 

[1sailor]

I use a Lee Pro Powder Disc. Titegroup measures very accurately through one. I weigh every tenth charge. Working at a relaxed pace I can reload about 140 to about 180 rounds an hour. Honestly, .38 Special really is very easy to load for. Have you been to the Hodgdon reloading website? They provide a lot of loading data. You will get a lot of folks talkng bad about Titegroup. If you are able to follow simple instructions you will have no problems with it. Titegroup is not out to trick anyone. You just have to pay attention. This is pretty much mandatory when reloading anyway.

 

[Rex B]

1sailor, guess you mean the Lee Pro Auto Disc? Looks pretty trick, but looks like it's made for turret or progressive presses only. Doesn't appear suited to bench mount, and I am currently using a single stage press.

I have tried the Hogdon site, It's showing 3.2-3.8 gr.
The "Reloading for Beginners" tab looked promising, but it was not at all useful.
Anyone tried Trail Boss in 38 spl?

 

[tankpondman]

I believe you will need a different dipper for
3.2 - 3.8.

 

[tankpondman]

.3 dipper throws 3.5.
Frankford Arsenal has a nice little digital scale for cheap.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

After about 8 years reloading virtually all the pistol calibers (380acp, 9mm, 9x18, 38 & 357, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 45acp & Colt, both 44s) and 5 rifle calibers I still weigh every load individually. So much for tedium and tiny (and LARGE, as in over 100gr) charges...

The OP needs a more basic understanding of the principles of reloading as it pertains to the safe and accurate determination of a specific amount of powder. Not understanding a powder drop is a recipe for a disaster.

Just IMHO.

Cheers!

 

[jjrr]

"The OP needs a more basic understanding of the principles of reloading as it pertains to the safe and accurate determination of a specific amount of powder. Not understanding a powder drop is a recipe for a disaster."

Quote from storminorman. This is the the most important take away from this thread.

 

[glenwolde]

The .5cc dipper shows 5.9gr of Titegroup on the Lee Dipper Chart. So that's out. The .3cc shows 3.5gr. of Titegroup. You can also make your own scoop by filing down a case and attaching a handle with epoxy.

You don't need a balance beam scale. As long as you check the calibration (and you are) you're good. I swap out batteries on a schedule because when they go you get weird readings. Electronic scales tend to be right, or grossly, and obviously, wrong. I've been loading for 45 years and threw the balance beam out a decade ago. I use a small inexpensive digital scale. Much easier to use than the balance beam which always seemed to need frequent re-zeroing. Some guys don't trust the new-fangled technology but that's more just bias than fact. But do keep your cellphone and any other electronic devices away from the scale.

I've never used Titegroup so I can't comment on that. I load 4.0 gr of W231 with that same bullet.

The Lee Dipper Chart:
https://fsreloading.com/userfiles/file/instruction_sheets/Dippers.pdf

 

[Greyman50]

IMHO, buy a RCBS or Lyman beam scale, read and Reread instructions. Try it with different loads dumping powder back in can. Be sure and use a funnel. Next Buy a good adjustable power measure, RCBS or similar. Read and Reread instructions. Practice using powder measure and scale several times to get the " hang of it". You can buy a powder measure stand or have one made from apiece of 1/2"X2"flat bar bent with torch or press then a correct 7/8" hole drilled and tapped for powder measure. Look on reloading thread here for advice for loading procedure, set up and try everything, get comfortable with your set up. Excellent you are asking questions, better safe than sorry. Reloading since mid 70s.

 

[cracker57]

Weigh each (tiny) charge? Sounds a bit tedious for 100 or so rounds.
I was hoping to be one of you guys that knocks out 500 rounds while you watch TV

one of you guys that knocks out 500 while watching tv, these guys don't reload anymore. They all are missing fingers.
do not watch TV do not let the kids run around while reloading you need to stay 100% focused one what you are doing.

 

[scooter123]

From the sound of it you seem to be taking the same road I did when I started reloading. You will come to the same conclusions that I did. The only items in the entire Lee lineup of products that are truly a good value are their reloading Die sets. Every other item is not worth spit.

Lee Perfect Powder Measures, junk that I replaced with an RCBS Competition powder measure which is worth all of the 168 dollars that it cost me. Hint, you get what you pay for.

Lee Safety Scale. It will work, barely. However it will also lose it's zero gradually if you have any vibration in the bench it's mounted on. DO NOT PUT THIS SCALE ON YOUR LOADING BENCH. I replaced mine within a year with an RCBS 502 because it won't lose the zero setting but still keep my balance scale on a foreman's desk sitting opposite from my reloading bench.

Hand primer. Don't waste your time with a Lee hand primer, instead get an RCBS Universal hand primer. I have two, one set up for Large primers and the other set up for Small primers. Note, you can prime either Rifle or Handgun on an RCBS hand primer.

As for the electronic scales, the zero will drift so keep in mind that what you see may be as much as 0.2 grains off the actual weight. Basically use them to rough in your weight and do your fine tuning with a Beam scale.

Powders, the vary a lot in repeatability from a volume based powder measure. I have take the time to run capability studies on all of my handgun powders and to a large extent that has driven my choice of powders for loading. For example I load 38 special and high energy 9mm with Vihtavouri 3N37 because the Standard Deviation for this powder is 0.07 grains. For 357 Magnum and 300 Blackout my choice is H110 because the SD is only 0.04 grains. BTW, H110 will completely jam a Lee powder measure because it's such a fine grained powder. Powders with a 0.17 grain SD are rather common and almost all are powders originally intended for loading Shotshells. These are Unique, Clay's, Universal, Longshot Titewad and some others I don't remember off the top of my head. I use Longshot in 40 S&W because it's great for building loads such as a 165 grain Gold Dot at 1150 fps. Due to it's variability every single charge is hand trickled to weight on a Beam Scale.

Finally, I'm a 4 gun Skeet shooter, which means I compete in 410, 28, 20, and 12 gauge Skeet events. Practice means loading about 10,000 shotshells per year. So all you handgun shooters please don't use our precious shotgun powders for your handgun loads. There are alternative such as Accurate #2, 5, 7, and 9 that meter wonderfully so please leave the Unique, Universale, and Longshot for us shotshell loaders.

 

[WR Moore]

OP, if you're still with us, I reloaded handgun for decades with Unique* and a set of the Lee dippers. Plus a few custom dippers I made with .32 ACP shell cases. Be advised that the weight of powder indicated in the chart is from a freshly opened can of powder, possibly with some compaction. It's doubtful that you'll actually get that weight, which is why you need a scale. Developing a consistent scoop through the powder will aid in fairly consistent powder charges. Having exactly the same charge isn't really all that important at normal pistol ranges. A good beam scale is much faster than the digital gizzies.

I'd suggest the Lyman beam scale and their #55 powder measure if you want to go that route.

*Has a moderate burn rate so minor differences in charge weight aren't all that important. A good load manual will let you find powders with a similar burn rate, but go with published data. YOU CAN'T USE BURN RATE CHARTS TO FIGURE POWDER CHARGES!

 

[tmd17]

....
I was hoping to be one of you guys that knocks out 500 rounds while you watch TV

I hope that was in jest. Watching T.V. while hand loading is something I would NEVER consider a safe thing to do.

When I load, I am at my bench with the door closed and nothing but the rhythmic clicks and clacks of the press to keep me company.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

For years when I first started reloading i weighed every load, rifle and pistol. I would dump a load from my rcbs measure and trickle it up to the weight I wanted. Worked fine until I started competing in ipsc. I started trusting my measures for pistol loads. I still weighed my rifle loads. The best measures are the old Dillon 450 measures with a button and 550 automatic measures. I've put 550s on my Lyman T2 turret presses to speed things up too.

 

[reddog81]

How consistent can you drop powder charges with the dipper? How consistent can you drop powder charges with your lee dispenser? You can use the scale to determine how much powder you are picking up with the dipper.

I'm assuming you have the $25 Lee Perfect Powder Measure... If so it should be pretty consistent if your process is consistent. It needs a solid mount and I tap it at the top and bottom of each drop. Tap to make sure it's full and tap to make sure all the powder drops out. If you do this it will be as consistent as any other volume based dispenser.

There is probably nothing wrong with the tools you have. Buying more stuff won't solve anything.

 

[22hipower]

As others have already noted, Titegroup is not the powder best used in a "dipping" scenario. You can do it but the amounts between a min and max load are very small and I would have zero confidence in being able to consistently dip at either end of the range. I use Titgroup for several calibers for light loads and really like it for that purpose but I weigh every load. Overkill perhaps, weighing every load, but I don't trust powder measures when using Titegroup; actually these days I weigh every load no matter the caliber or powder. My recommendation is to get a RCBS Chargemaster and weigh every load. I use single stage presses and the Chargemaster will dispense and weigh powder for each load as fast as I can load a bullet in a charged case and be ready for another. Not the fastest process but reliable. . . .and safe.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[kbm6893]

I am pretty OCD when it comes to reloading, and I would never feel comfortable just using a dipper. I use a Hornady powder thrower, and an RCBS beam scale. Digital ones vary too much. For powder, I settled on HP38/Win231. Meters dead on every time. When I started reloading, all I could find was Red Dot. It did not meter well at all. I use HP38 for all my handgun ammo so no worry of mixing powders.

I also don't drop a bunch at a time and do the flashlight test to make sure they are level. I used to do that, but I was on about the 47th case in a batch of 50 and my arm bumped the arm of the press and I spilled the powder from the case into the 46 open cases in the block. Had to start all over. So now, I drop powder, weigh powder, dump in case, and seat bullet. This way, I can load as few as I want at a time. When all 50 are done, I crimp them all and I'm done.

 

[Hair Trigger]

OK, let's start over. If I came in here and said I'm a greenhorn and I want to reload some 38 spl. I see the wisdom of using a high-volume powder to reduce or eliminate the chance of a 2X charge. I would also like something that is on the slow end of the burn rate. This is plinker ammo and I'm getting recoil-sensitive.
What would you guys recommend for a powder that a rookie won't loose a finger or two over?

What storminorman says below.
Spend the money, buy the proper equipment, if you plan to reload anything. Loading smokeless powder ain't like a cowboy filling a case with black powder and stuffing a bullet in the end. A small digital scale is inexpensive, and more accurate and repeatable than a beam scale. If you buy one designed for reloading, it will have a small pan to measure out your loads. They also come with a small calibration weight. Invest in a powder throw. You pour your powder in a hopper, the lever moves a set amount with each turn (throw), and you adjust the throw amount, weigh it, adjust the throw, weigh the amount, repeat half a dozen times until each throw is within 0.1 grain of each other consistently. Once you have a consistent weight every time you throw a load, you can start filling your cases. Buy a reloading manual; I use Hornady's, but any will do that give you a range of loads and powders for a desired velocity. If you want a good, relatively slow powder for the .38 Spl. find some Power Pistol. It meters well and has a wide range of loads. One downside to slow-burning powder and handguns is that you can get a nice fireball, and may have unburned powder residue to clean up from the short barrels. That said, I use Power Pistol in my non-magnum handguns: .38 Spl. .40S&W, 10mm Auto, .45 Auto, .45 Colt.

The OP needs a more basic understanding of the principles of reloading as it pertains to the safe and accurate determination of a specific amount of powder. Not understanding a powder drop is a recipe for a disaster.

Just IMHO.

Cheers!

 

[mikld]

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Manuals/Dippers.pdf Page 2 about 1/3 way down. Titegroup dipper capacities. .5cc = 5.9gr Titegroup. I would suggest getting a scale (I don't trust digital scales, too many failures) and perfect your dipping method. With practice and when on a roll I have been able to repeat charges down to .5 gr variations with some powders...

About the Lee Perfect Powder measure being inaccurate and unreliable; Baloney! I have been using one since 1987 and first one from 1971-1982. I also have 4 other powder measures, and use my C-H 502 as much as my Lee with comparable accuracy and repeatability. IIRC the last time I used my PPM I was charging 5.2 gr CFE P and weighed every charge (doing a load work up). Total variation of charge weights was +/- .5 gr. for 48 charges. IMO the biggest problem with Lee products is operator error and ignorance...

 

[pantannojack]

Powder charge is very important unless you are doing pop corn loads. I use a Pacific drum type powder measure I got when buying the complete kit from Pacific. It is very similar to the RCBS measure. Mine is Red, the RCBS is green. I set it to NO MORE than my desired powder drop I drop one charge into the case, then immediately pour into my balance scale (also a red one) cup. Then trickle up to what I want. some powders are more constant than others, but I know all of my cases are powdered the same. Then before bullet seating I look into each case using a flash light. If I could not afford, or could not get permission from a significant other to have the necessary equipment to reload safely I would not reload.