New to reloading, need help with powder measuring

[54ball]

Weigh each (tiny) charge? Sounds a bit tedious for 100 or so rounds.
I was hoping to be one of you guys that knocks out 500 rounds while you watch TV

That group all tried to talk me out of using the Titegroup.

I'm going to go a step further and try to talk you out of reloading altogether.
It's not for everybody.

 

[lppd4]

For years when I first started reloading i weighed every load, rifle and pistol. I would dump a load from my rcbs measure and trickle it up to the weight I wanted. Worked fine until I started competing in ipsc. I started trusting my measures for pistol loads. I still weighed my rifle loads. The best measures are the old Dillon 450 measures with a button and 550 automatic measures. I've put 550s on my Lyman T2 turret presses to speed things up too.

I'm with you I weigh rifle charges out individually to as near perfect as I can get it. As previously stated I only load moderate pressure pistol rounds, if I need something hot, I shoot factory loads. I set my powder throw to my desired amount, weighing several charges, once satisfied I get to loading only checking a powder weight every 100-200 rounds if that. On my Dillon 1050 I may load 600 rounds or so. I do visually inspect the amount of powder in each case if using my single stage press. I don't think I have ever stopped to verify that my powder measure is still where it needs to be and found it off. This over the course of 45 years of reloading that included high volume loading for USPSA matches and practice ammo. I figure I have loaded well over 100,000 rounds.

 

[jjrr]

My method is similar to most, I set up my balance scale and check the zero and check the span with check weights and then I set my thrower and throw a tray and then do the visual check under strong light the weigh three or four off the tray and then seat bullets. I'm very careful with the powder.

 

[AlHunt]

Maybe OP should look up "The Reloading Podcast". They've been around for about 300 episodes. Somewhere early on they go through beginning reloading or getting started or something, over the course of several episodes and really dig deep.

Probably more helpful than a bunch of us all throwing conflicting advice at him.

 

[tlawler]

What storminorman says below.
Spend the money, buy the proper equipment, if you plan to reload anything. Loading smokeless powder ain't like a cowboy filling a case with black powder and stuffing a bullet in the end. A small digital scale is inexpensive, and more accurate and repeatable than a beam scale. If you buy one designed for reloading, it will have a small pan to measure out your loads. They also come with a small calibration weight. Invest in a powder throw. You pour your powder in a hopper, the lever moves a set amount with each turn (throw), and you adjust the throw amount, weigh it, adjust the throw, weigh the amount, repeat half a dozen times until each throw is within 0.1 grain of each other consistently. Once you have a consistent weight every time you throw a load, you can start filling your cases. Buy a reloading manual; I use Hornady's, but any will do that give you a range of loads and powders for a desired velocity. If you want a good, relatively slow powder for the .38 Spl. find some Power Pistol. It meters well and has a wide range of loads. One downside to slow-burning powder and handguns is that you can get a nice fireball, and may have unburned powder residue to clean up from the short barrels. That said, I use Power Pistol in my non-magnum handguns: .38 Spl. .40S&W, 10mm Auto, .45 Auto, .45 Colt.

I disagree completely with that statement about digital scales. A good beam scale is vastly superior. And by good, I don't mean a Lee scale. We probably all started out with those, but soon went to a better quality scale. I bought a second hand RCBS 5-10 fairly cheaply and it's still my go-to scale. I only use my pricey Dillon scale when I'm dialing in a new charge. It gets me close, but then I go to the beam.

 

[Greyman50]

BTW, when finished with your balance beam scale, remove pan, pan hanger and beam. Cover with clear plastic storage bin( or similar), protects scale from dust. After almost 40 years I sent my scale(RCBS) back to Ohaus for recalibration, then found a " Deal, Deal on a new RCBS new one which I really do not like. I Double Check each weight with both scales before I start loading. Check weight every 20 cases.Have 2 presses set up, 1 for depriming the other for bullet setting. Once however many cases have been deprimed and primer pockets cleaned, switch depriming die to belling die. Have 2 primer tools so have large primer in one and small in other. Bell each case, check mouth for cracks, prime, bell, use powder measure to change case, insert bullet and seat bullet. Absolutely No Distractions. Every device is set on bench in a row so just swivel seat to complete each round.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

As posted in other threads I often use the LEE powder dippers... i.e., I find a LEE #0.5 is right around 4.5gr Bullseye (and there's always scant, full & heaping as needed): this is an amount I can use for various loads and calibers.

They measure powders by volume: by using them to put the initial powder into the pan on my ancient Ohaus 10/10 I can then easily trickle additional powder (if actually needed?) to the desired weight. A quick occasional check on the digital scale and from there into the cases. Loaded into a tray and given the final flashlight inspection prior to seating, etc.

By measuring both volume and weight (twice on some) I feel I greatly reduce the possibility of either a dangerous low powder (squib) load and a higher than intended one (KABOOM!).

For some high powered rifle loads (338 Lapua Magnum) I may use two or even three LEE dippers to get close to the intended amount and trickle from there. Makes for very consistent loads.

Cheers!

P.S. I have a Lyman 55 (not used it yet...) and a Hornady Lock-n-Load that I use occasionally: if I'm concerned about production (say for 9mm or .223/5.56) I can, in some instances, manually measure another powder charge while it is running and double the number of cases I can charge in the same amount of time. Multiple loading trays come in handy.

 

[Boudiepitbull]

Invest in the best scale (I prefer balance beam) and caliper (again I prefer old school dial over
digital) that you can.
Develop good habits right from the start. I use a single stage press and a RCBS powder measure. At my level of experience (a few years and 10-15K rounds) I believe a single stage is still the safest press I could use.. After I've adjusted the powder drop for my desired charge I might drop 6 or 7 charges into my dish weighing each one to insure my initial setting is consistent with my desired charge. As I work across a row in the loading tray I drop 4 charges into cases and a weighed charge the 5th case. Then I move on to the next row. If something goes amiss I only have to go back one row of 4 or 5 cases to double check. Immediately cap each charged case with the bullet you intend to seat as you go and you will greatly reduce the chance of loading an accidental double charge. It may all seem tedious and redundant at first, but hand loading is a repetitive process where good habits and redundancy in checking yourself will keep your finished rounds consistently safer.

 

[scooter123]

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Manuals/Dippers.pdf Page 2 about 1/3 way down. Titegroup dipper capacities. .5cc = 5.9gr Titegroup. I would suggest getting a scale (I don't trust digital scales, too many failures) and perfect your dipping method. With practice and when on a roll I have been able to repeat charges down to .5 gr variations with some powders...

About the Lee Perfect Powder measure being inaccurate and unreliable; Baloney! I have been using one since 1987 and first one from 1971-1982. I also have 4 other powder measures, and use my C-H 502 as much as my Lee with comparable accuracy and repeatability. IIRC the last time I used my PPM I was charging 5.2 gr CFE P and weighed every charge (doing a load work up). Total variation of charge weights was +/- .5 gr. for 48 charges. IMO the biggest problem with Lee products is operator error and ignorance...

I have three of the Lee PPM's, they were cheap enough that I could dedicate a measure to a specific powder and charge weight. At the time my primary calibers to shoot was the 40 S&W and the 45 ACP. The third measure was for experimental loads and low volume calibers. When I purchased a 357 Magnum I naturally gravitated to loading 357 Magnum ammunition and chose H110 because it's a perfect match for 357 Magnum. H110 is NOT a perfect match for a Lee PPM. It only takes about 5 rounds with this powder to completely jam the drum and no amount of fiddling with the screw for the drum will stop it from jamming. The problem is the plastic construction, there is enough variation between the drum and housing that a very fine powders can leak into tiny voids between the drum and housing to totally jam the drum. Later on I got a pound of Accurate #5 to try out with 45 ACP and that powder also jammed up the Lee PPM. So now I have 3 powders measures that wont work with 2 powders on hand and have to go back to using a dipper and weighing every single charge loaded with H110 or AA #5.

At that point I purchased the RCBS Competition measure and have never had one single jam with any powder. It's also a lot more convenient to use. In my load record I have the micrometer reading for every single recipe recorded. Note, powders do vary in density from lot to lot so I always check my throw weight for 10 throws and tune as needed.

Bottomline is this. The Lee Perfect Powder Measure will work well provided you are using a large flake powder such as Unique or a somewhat coarsely granulated powder such as VV 3N37 or IMR SR7625. It will not work with a very fine powder such as H110 or any of the Accurate #2, #5, #7, or #9. BTW, H110 really is perfect for 357 Magnum and Accurate #5 was developed specifically for the 45 ACP.

I'll also note that I do not find a variation of +/- 0.5 grains to be acceptable in a handgun load. In a 16-30 grain shotgun charge this amount of variation is not significant, in a 5 grain handgun charge this much variation is 10% of the charge weight target and is actually significant. I load high velocity 40 S&W loads using Longshot, which features a SD of 0.17 grains and trickle every charge to weight because statistics predicts a variation of +/- 0.51 grains.

 

[vinn]

Trying to load some 38spl plinking/target loads
I have the brass cleaned, primed.
Bullets are 38 Caliber 158 Grain SWC Hi-Tech coated from Hoosier Bullets
I am going to use Hogdon TiteGroup

So, the Lee die set came with a .5cc dipper measure.
The recommended load is 4.1-5.0 gr.

One is volume, the other weight.
How do I determine how to measure the powder?

I do have a digital powder scale.

what am I missing?

the cup is the measure !

 

[Buford57]

Amazing how many people read the OP, ignore everything else and formulate an answer. Poor guy. So far it's Titegroup is not ideal but fine vs. Go find some Bullseye or Unique (spoiler alert - he bought Titegroup because he couldn't find Bullseye); never trust a digital scale vs. Digital scales are more precise than balance beams; dippers are junk vs dippers work just fine. Buy a manual (or a different one), don't trust the Internet vs. Links to podcasts.

Confused when you got here? You'll be utterly befuddled when you leave.

 

[Karl Haemmerlein]

The TiteGroup can recommends 3.8 grains for 38spl/158gr lead SWC
The powder measure is graduated in CCs.
Is there not some sort of conversion factor ?

In the full lee dipper set with the sliding card they do list VMD(volumetric density) for powders. DON'T use it. Every lot of powder is different. If you practice and can measure the largest dipper in the full Lee set very accurately several times in a row, you can calculate your own VMD with your lot of powder. If you are good/consistent enough with a dipper, you could technically convert grains to CC's. I have regularly picked up new lots of the same powder that have 15% difference in VMD from lot to lot, and I also sometimes get them that are so close they could be the same. Burn rates also change from lot to lot, treat all new lots of same powder as an unknown. Reduce charges and test a new lot of same powder, don't blindly use the same load you always did. My newest 8lb jug of IMR4227 is so different from any I've had before, I have to create a new load with a different powder for my 41 magnums. My new lot will not function my Desert Eagle .41 mag, impossible to get enough in the case to function it reliably. I got hit by the double whammy on that lot of 4227, it is bulkier and burns slower than any I've ever had.

I didn't see anyone else mention this, loads in books are specific with case, OAL, primer and bullet used. If you don't have exactly the same, start low. Of course you should always start low anyway, but so many new reloaders think a recipe in the book is good to go. It is not, you never have the exact same components, barrel, and powder lot they used.

 

[venomballistics]

the dipper method is not ideal, but it does work and it will get your feet in the pool.
Basic theory is that the dipper will produce an acceptable load with some common powder

 

[Rex B]

I got the Hogdon data page to work on the other computer. It agrees with the above charge range. I'm going to plan on a 3.2 grain charge.
Shopping for a better scale.

 

[Rex B]

My 2008 Hogdon Annual has a full reloading data section'
It shows specs for 38spl with Titegroup. 3.2gr to 3.8gr

I am going to modify or make a scoop that will deliver 3.2 gr reliably and go from there.

 

[minconrevo]

I would suggest dropping 10 good loads and then scale the all togather. Better accuracy potential.

 

[reddog81]

What's the problem with the current scale?

 

[venomballistics]

My 2008 Hogdon Annual has a full reloading data section'
It shows specs for 38spl with Titegroup. 3.2gr to 3.8gr

I am going to modify or make a scoop that will deliver 3.2 gr reliably and go from there.

you "COULD" craft or mod a scoop, but at some point the inevitable progression is to get the proper tool for the job.
Why fight it?
Perfect Powder Measure - Lee Precision

 

[jjrr]

My 2008 Hogdon Annual has a full reloading data section'
It shows specs for 38spl with Titegroup. 3.2gr to 3.8gr

I am going to modify or make a scoop that will deliver 3.2 gr reliably and go from there.

Go for it, there's been many a round of 38 loaded with a scoop. Good luck with it.

 

[johngalt]

I started out with a LEE Challenger kit (single stage, O-frame, Lee Perfect Powder Measure, beam scale, the LEE reloading manual, hand primer, shell holders, maybe some other misc stuff).

While it was a good way to get my feet wet, it was also frustrating. I almost gave it up. I agree with the other comments that the LEE dies are good, the rest not so much.

The press: it worked ok, but had a lot of slop in the linkages. Does that affect accuracy? It didn't seem to.

Beam scale - very poorly damped. weighing anything was extremely frustrating. Weigh the same thing twice and you got 2 different results.

One thing to consider with beam vs. digital: You set the beam to a specific weight. The scale only tells you if you are high or low. With practice, you might even be able to tell by how much (I never could). A digital scale tells you what it actually weighs.

If you go the digital scale route, get one that runs off AC, not batteries. As the batteries discharge the scale drifts.

PPM - very inconsistent, leaked powder everywhere. Powder gets into the mechanism and binds it up. I briefly experimented with the Autodisk. Much better but not really worth buying unless you are going to stick with LEE presses.

I replaced both the beam scale and the PPM with a RCBS Chargemaster 1500. Expensive, but an awesome scale/powder thrower. It automatically weights powder charges. Back in the early days of my reloading, it worked great with Titegroup. I've since settled on Bullseye as my preferred target powder, but the Chargemaster reliably and consistently threw Titegroup charges at the weight I chose.

It is fantastic for doing load development. Suppose you want to experiment with charges ranging from, for example 2.8 through 3.3.

Set it for 2.8, do a run. Set it for 3.0, do a run, etc. A beam scale would require endless fiddling.

Buy a manual. Hornady is my favorite. The manual has theory and explanations of WHY things are done the way they are. It is more than just recipes.

You will often see the advice of "start low and work up". Don't do it. Stick with the recipes. Most pistol cartridges have a SAAMI maximum pressure well below what it takes to flatten a primer. By the time you see a flat primer you are way over.