.45 ACP vs. .45 Auto Rim

[Mike SC Hunter]

I like auto rims too.

 

[reddog81]

The benefit of shooting 45 ACP in a revolver is you can use the same ammo and same reloading setup as in pistols. Doinking around with 45 AR seems like an extra hassle to me...

EZmoonclip.com sells the polymer clips or just google "Rimz 45 ACP". They are $40 for 10. Just but them from the company that makes them. I have clips for my 929 from them. I was going to buy 45 ACP ones from them but haven't gotten around to it. It's not that hard to load and unload them by hand. I just use 2 wooden dowel of the appropriate size to unload them. One dowel in the center of the clip and one dowel in the case to pull it off. I don't use any tools to load them. Some cases are easier than others. Some are a bear to get in and out of the metal clips. I just keep all my revolver brass in clips unless it's being reloaded so no difficult to use clips get introduced into the system.

It's easy to measure case capacity of 45 ACP and 45 AR if you have empty cases of each. Fill with water or fill with powder and see which one holds more. If they hold the same then pressure will be the same.

 

[Greyman50]

Brownells number#100-001-684. Rimz S&W Speedloader. From my Master Catalog # 73, 2021-2022 page 250.

 

[steelslaver]

While the BMT N45-6 is a great way to go, I use this Model from TKC

You don' even need to spend much to have on as you can make one yourself out of steel, aluminum, hard wood or even UHMW. A post that the clip fits over and hold clip up of base about .040 and a pivoting lever to snap in the brass. I just have a pile of loaded ammo and clips and set there and fill them. After a few you don't even need to look at what your doing.

I use the tube with a notch method to de clip.

 

[biku324]

I have moonclips for ACP and HKS speedloaders for Auto Rim for a 625. I use HKS and AR for 255 grain LSWC, moonclips and ACP for everything else.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

If your 45 ACP revolver is a S&W, as it should be! You don't have to have any clips! The chambers are cut to headspace on the case mouth (like a 45 should). Extraction can be done with any stick, cleaning rod or a #2 pencil!

It seems silly to me that someone would avoid full or half-moon clips, but want a speed loaded. However, HKS makes a 45AR speed loaded Marked as a Model 25 is says AUTO RIM across the top of the silver knob. I picked a used one up last week for a friend with a Colt 1917.

I made a "Mooner" from a 7" piece of base board and 8" dowel rod. I line up 6 rounds nose to rim, in the board's round notch, then slide a full moon clip over the extraction groove and press in place using the dowel rod. I keep over a hundred full in a 50 Cal ammo can.

My 1917 BC and 625 of 1989 both thrive with full moons of ammo. My 1917 doubles as a mountain gun win with moons of SD ammo in my jacket pocket, and I like using a lanyard while canoeing or kayaking (and camping for that matter).

Ivan

In the early 80's I bought one box of AR brass for an Enfield that the chambers were hogged out, and ACP brass wouldn't extract on a moon clip. I pushed the AR brass out with a 3/8" dowel rod. That was my first 45ACP handgun, and last time I needed or wanted AR cases.

 

[CH4]

My 45 AR loads are identical to my 45acp loads. Same cartridge, but one has a rim.

 

[StakeOut]

I had 3".5" and 6 1/2" 45acp revolvers that I didn't use for EDC so I preferred 45AR brass.
When Walmart discontinued their Perfecta ammo I bought a ton of 45acp and 9mm.The 45acp could head space in my Model of 1950,pre 25s,25s and 625s and shoot well without moon clips but the empties needed to be removed with fingers one at a time.

Try finding 45AR cases

 

[bobbyd]

Moon clip tools

Can you recommend some good tools? I see plenty of de-mooning tools that seem to work well. Inserting rounds in the clips is more of a hassle. I see pricey tools that will insert all six with a quick rotation. I'm disinclined to spend $90 on one without some confidence it will work well.

I’ve tried them all and nothing works as well as the BMT!
I don’t know if you consider it too pricey or not but it’s totally and absolutely worth the price in the long run and makes moon clip usage a snap.

If I had known this from the beginning, I would have saved more than enough by not messing with the box of inferior also-ran tools that are sitting in a box on the back shelf gathering dust in my reloading room.

 

[flintsghost]

The reason that the data is different for ACP and auto rimmed is that older auto rimed revolvers were made differently and may not handle the same pressures. During WWI that wasn't an issue. Now it might be. With some of the newer clips made of a polymer or carbon fiber the rounds pop in and out by hand easily. I use both the polymer clips and steel clips as I was given both when I bought my 625-2 3". I use 45acp data to load my auto rimmer cases and have never had a problem. I also use the polymer clips mainly because I don't have to worry about using a demooner to take the cases out.

 

[alwslate]

Different shell holders are required because the ACP case is rimless and the AR case has a rim, simple.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

I use both types of brass. I load up a bunch of moon clips before I go the range. I’ve found a good pair of needle nose pliers works for loading moon clips. To demoon the brass I use the cheap pipe tool.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

If your 45 ACP revolver is a S&W, as it should be! You don't have to have any clips! The chambers are cut to headspace on the case mouth (like a 45 should). Extraction can be done with any stick, cleaning rod or a #2 pencil!

It seems silly to me that someone would avoid full or half-moon clips, but want a speed loaded. However, HKS makes a 45AR speed loaded Marked as a Model 25 is says AUTO RIM across the top of the silver knob. I picked a used one up last week for a friend with a Colt 1917.

I made a "Mooner" from a 7" piece of base board and 8" dowel rod. I line up 6 rounds nose to rim, in the board's round notch, then slide a full moon clip over the extraction groove and press in place using the dowel rod. I keep over a hundred full in a 50 Cal ammo can.

My 1917 BC and 625 of 1989 both thrive with full moons of ammo. My 1917 doubles as a mountain gun win with moons of SD ammo in my jacket pocket, and I like using a lanyard while canoeing or kayaking (and camping for that matter).

Ivan

In the early 80's I bought one box of AR brass for an Enfield that the chambers were hogged out, and ACP brass wouldn't extract on a moon clip. I pushed the AR brass out with a 3/8" dowel rod. That was my first 45ACP handgun, and last time I needed or wanted AR cases.

Ya need to back down there Ivan.........NONE of my 625's will constistantly fire 45acp without moon clips.......Chambers are bored too deep. Several miles back in this forum Tommy Campbell. Who worked and shot for S&W argued this point with S&W engineers and lost............SO.....Old guns yes/maybe......Newer guns......No

 

[zeke]

Ya need to back down there Ivan.........NONE of my 625's will constistantly fire 45acp without moon clips.......Chambers are bored too deep. Several miles back in this forum Tommy Campbell. Who worked and shot for S&W argued this point with S&W engineers and lost............SO.....Old guns yes/maybe......Newer guns......No

There was a time period when S&W eliminated the interior "ledge" in their 45 acp cylinders, but believe popular opinion brought them back. Had this discussion on some gun board awhile bacj with a non-believer. IMO, the ability to use regular brass without moon clips can certainly be an advantage in some cases. If i was a competitive shooter, would probably be more interested in moon clips. As it is, like the forceful ejection of a short rimmed case.

 

[cmj8591]

The 45 AR pressure standard was set in 1925 when Peters developed the round. It was intended at the time for only two guns. The S&W 1917 and the Colt New Service, aka, 1917. Those were the only two revolvers that used the AR. I think that they were lower pressure to save wear and tear on the revolver. It wasn't about safety because those guns were designed to fire the higher pressure military ball ammo just like the 1911. The 625 benefits from newer technology in metallurgy and engineering that have come along since 1925 but there's still a lot of 1917's out there to shoot the AR so the pressure level is kept at the 1925 level. That's the long way of saying that if you're shooting a 625 using AR, you can load any load that can go in a ACP. In fact, there's a few more options because you don't have to worry about feeding from a magazine and can use some different profile bullets. The moonclip/auto rim argument is a bit like the old Miller Lite, tastes great/less filling bit. Everyone is right. I dumped my moonclips and went to the auto rim in the middle of an IDPA season and never looked back. The half moonclips fixed a WW1 problem that I don't have so the less I have to fiddle with, the better I like it.

I edited this to change the moonclip fixing the WW1 problem to the half moonclip. There were no moonclips in 1917 that I know of. Just HALF moonclips.

 

[pasound]

I had a 25 back in the 80's and early 90's. Sadly I no longer have it. Convertable 45 ACP/45 Colt. I had a few moon clips, but when I discovered 45 AR brass, loaded it only with them. Same handloads as 45 ACP, same accuracy.

 

[StrawHat]

Regarding the ability of the S&W ACP revolver to chamber an ACP without a moon clip (full, 1/2 or 1/3) it depends on what era your revolver was built. All of the blued revolvers were built to standards that allowed the ACP round to be chambered and fired by headspacing on the cartridge mouth, just like the 1911. When you get into the stainless steel revolvers and later, it becomes iffy. Some do, some don’t.

Here is a copy of an article by Brian Pearce, he explains it better than I.

Kevin

 

[CRT2]

45 acp works in my 25-2 without moon clips. Regardless, I use moon and half-moon clips. My 25-2 is particular about the thickness of the moon clips it will accept to permit proper cycling.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

I’ve found that my reloads have enough bumps, bulges and rim damage that putting 6 in a moon clip will compound the out of spec dimensions and sometimes create issues chambering the loaded moonclip in my 625 cylinder. After reloading I use a bulge buster to make the reloads more uniform which makes them easier to load.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

If memory serves, Sierra's new manual did away with the heavier loads for revolvers section

Still there (in Sierra VI) & no change in it's data from Sierra V.

They did add a 45ACP (+P) section but the revolver section is hotter.

.