My next paper: The NYPD S&W Victory

[RM Vivas]

Well, I had finally completed (as much as they can be completed) the NYPD records for the Colt Commando.

Getting the Commando records organised was the prerequisite to penning an article on their use by the NYPD during WW2.

I finally got the article off to the Colt Collectors Association people and it's tempting to call it 'done', but as most of you know, new info is always popping up somewhere.

The result is that the articles are never truly 'done' as we keep adding to them as stuff pops up.

Anyway.........

Having put the Commando issue to bed, I now move my attentions to the Smith & Wesson Victory revolvers that the department had during and after WW2.

I've generally said that there were about 1,100 or so Victory revolvers that went to NYPD.

Before I can start writing I first have to get the exact number according to surviving records and then confirm what gun went to which officer and when.

Once that is done and an accurate headcount is made, I can start looking for trends and unique instances and then start writing.

I just finished about 160 entries that I was able to tie to individual officers by name and shield numbers. I think the total number I've got documented is about 500 or so, so I am near the halfway point.

One interesting thing I've noticed is that as of FEB46 the Department was still selling Victory's to recruits. I'm not sure if this is because they had them on hand or if its because S&W was still behind on civilian production guns. I may need some collaboration from our resident Victory experts on that.

It looks like Victorys were in inventory until the early 1950's, when the last were sold to Colts 20 Vesey Street office.

For comparison the last Commando sale by the Department was in late 1945 and they do not appear to have had any after that.

Anyway, I'm going to use this post as a way of updating on how it progresses.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[ordnanceguy]

One interesting thing I've noticed is that as of FEB46 the Department was still selling Victory's to recruits. I'm not sure if this is because they had them on hand or if its because S&W was still behind on civilian production guns. I may need some collaboration from our resident Victory experts on that.

Best,
RM Vivas

Hello Robert:

After the war Smith & Wesson was only able to resume shipping guns to civilian buyers in the first quarter of 1946. I have checked the Victory Model Database and noticed that there are several recorded entries of Victory revolvers with SV serial prefixes that shipped to the NYPD in March, 1946. The shipment dates are confirmed by factory letters.

Hope that helps you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[RM Vivas]

Every little bit helps Mr. Flick!!!!

You know, one of the things that really kills me about the research I do is that when I'm sifting through informational chaff to find the gun wheat I come across data that means nothing to me but might mean volumes to someone else.

I'm sure there is someone going through some military or police records someplace trying to find geneology data or something similar and they are complaining "Serial numbers, shipping dates, -MORE- serial numbers! What is all this ****? Where's the pension fund list I need?"

An example would be The City Record archives I'm reading/pirating. I'll pull up the weekly report for the Department and if it doesn't say anything about new appointments that week, I toss the report aside.

However, just because it doesn't contain appointments it still contains: promotions, firings, cops who got rewards, reimbursements, transfers, deaths, disciplinary actions, name changes, etc. This has got to be useful info to -somebody-.

Having more time (ha!) than common sense, I'm now building a database of info from The City Record as it relates to NYPD. In the future, when I pull up a gun and a name, I should be able to go into this new database and see:

Appointed x/xx/19xx
Promoted to SGT @ 1,950 per annum, assigned xx Pct. x/xx/19xx
Received $26 for uniform reimbursement x/xx/19xx
Received $20 reward from Acme Insurance for recovery of stolen vehicle x/xx/19xx
Caught a 2 day rip, 61 Pct. x/xx/19xx
Retired CPT @ $2,250 per annum x/xx/19xx



Ultimately, when a gun is matched to a name I should be able to reconstruct almost all of the fellows career.

If I ever publish my Trophy Gun thesis as a book (and it would need MUCH work before that happens) this would be highly useful!

As far as my current Victory project, which this thread is -supposed- to be about:
Have confirmed records on about 700 guns so far.

Also started the last two classes I need to finish my undergrad degree in History. I'll be doing the application for graduate school (Masters in Public History) next month.

The two classes left are an upper division creative writing class which is basically an academic 'gimme' for me and a cursed, miserable Spansih 100 class.

I've managed to get this far in the educational system without having to learn a foreign language.

I only speak two languages: English and Bad English. Technically I also speak fluent Brooklynese but I don't count that as I am a native Speaker.

I learned enough Cantonese and Mandarin from my first wife (insert skull and crossbones emoji here) to kinda sorta get by, but even that took 25 years (insert image of convict holding jail cell bars).

Anyway, the Victory project continues.

If anyone can point me to sources regarding S&W's immediate post-war civilian sales figures/plans with an emphasis on when 'normal' sales channels resumed, I'd be grateful.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[RM Vivas]

you raise an excellent question: When did M&P shipments to NYPD resume?

We all know of the large -picked up- shipment from 10/46.

I'll take a look tonight and see what the first post-war shipments were.

RMV

Hello Robert:

After the war Smith & Wesson was only able to resume shipping guns to civilian buyers in the first quarter of 1946. I have checked the Victory Model Database and noticed that there are several recorded entries of Victory revolvers with SV serial prefixes that shipped to the NYPD in March, 1946. The shipment dates are confirmed by factory letters.

Hope that helps you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[RM Vivas]

The earliest post-war M&P sale I can find is:
S812613 on 19MAR46 to shield#12236

On the day it was sold I see maybe 50 V-series guns in the 65x,xxx range being sold as well.

As I recall, the last Victory was supposedly 811,119.

I'm seeing sales of V series guns: 810951 and several others in the 810,xxx range in March 1946.

There is a very large quantity of 812,xxx sold in March and June 1946. Not seeing any 811,xxx guns though.

The last Victory sold looks like a 770735, 771518 on June 12, 1946 but thats just from a cursory search.

Best,
RM Vivas

you raise an excellent question: When did M&P shipments to NYPD resume?

We all know of the large -picked up- shipment from 10/46.

I'll take a look tonight and see what the first post-war shipments were.

RMV

 

[RM Vivas]

"....There is a very large quantity of 812,xxx sold in March and June 1946. Not seeing any 811,xxx guns though. ..."


My bad.


S811882 to #12479 on 20MAR46
S811885 to #12564 on 20MAR46
S811890 to #12221 on 20MAR46
S811891 to #12483 on 21MAR46
S811912 to #12722 on 20MAR46
S811919 to Edward Boyce #12038 on 20MAR46.

RM Vivas