357 load for old k frame 125gr

[CorvZ061]

I have a bunch of 125gr jacketed bullets, I know that shooting full power loads from my 686 is fine, but have also heard about potentially damaging forcing cones with my 2 19-3’s.

If I were to load with 6.2gr, per hodgedon data, with CFE Pistol that would net me in the 1200 fps range. Would that be a safe load for the older k frame?

My other powders I have on hand are CFE Pistol, H110, AA#2, AA#5, AA#7, Clays universal, VV N110, VV N340, and VV N350

 

[colt_saa]

I have a bunch of 125gr jacketed bullets, I know that shooting full power loads from my 686 is fine, but have also heard about potentially damaging forcing cones with my 2 19-3’s.

If I were to load with 6.2gr, per hodgedon data, with CFE Pistol that would net me in the 1200 fps range. Would that be a safe load for the older k frame?

My other powders I have on hand are CFE Pistol, H110, AA#2, AA#5, AA#7, Clays universal, VV N110, VV N340, and VV N350

The cracked forcing cone legend has been way overblown with the creation of the Internet

Yes a forcing cone can crack but the odds are so small that you have a better chance of getting a splinter in your finger.

Projectile velocity was never the issue

The issue mostly revolved around FULL POWER ammunition using ball powders and light projectiles.

That said My 357 Magnum 19s and 66s have had many thousands of rounds of 21.6 grains of H110 and Winchester 125 JHP projectiles through them over the past 40 years.

I have loaded and shot over 8000 of those so far, but some have been fired through other revolvers. I have 4000 of that projectile remaining on hand for loading and shooting

If and When I ever crack a forcing cone, I will do exactly the same thing I do when my TV goes out or my tires wear out . . . . I will replace the barrel.

No one worries about not using household appliances until they break but we as a Group have some kind of fear of breaking our firearms and never finding a repairman.

 

[jimbo728]

.357 mag in k frame,
10.0gr A5 should be safe and sound for you r 125 gr jhps.
Jim

 

[jkmo]

The forcing cone on my 19-2 cracked.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Uh, 6.2gr of CFE-Pistol is just a wee bit higher than their MAX load for a 38 Special with a 125gr jacketed hollowpoint (an XTP)...

That's in a smaller case to boot.

Their START load in 357 Magnum is 6.9gr @ 1,340 fps. Now, a steady diet of 21gr of 296 @ 1,881 fps might (or, very well MIGHT NOT?) eventually cause some damage after many hundreds (if not thousands?) of rounds, but...

Maybe a box of 22 Shorts in a Model 17 (another "older k frame") would be less distressing?

Cheers!

P.S. My Model 19-3 typically endures 8.0gr at a low 32,500 psi. Interestingly, the lowest velocity jacket 357 Magnum factory ammo I could find was the Remington Golden Sabre BJHP @ 1,220 fps, although there are some reviews that are not particularly positive about its performance.

 

[IrishFritz]

Back in the day the New Hampshire State Police issued no dash 66 4" and they had 13 forcing cone fractures causing them to eventually trade for Ruger SP 101's. Some of the troopers were using un authorized Super Vel 125's and that might explain a lot. In any case, K frame forcing cone fractures are not a myth. I was in retail in the 1970's and saw one model 19 cone fracture using Smith and Wesson Fiocchi lead bullet 357 ammo. It is not a myth but a puzzle never explained.

 

[CorvZ061]

Uh, 6.2gr of CFE-Pistol is just a wee bit higher than their MAX load for a 38 Special with a 125gr jacketed hollowpoint (an XTP)...

That's in a smaller case to boot.

Their START load in 357 Magnum is 6.9gr @ 1,340 fps. Now, a steady diet of 21gr of 296 @ 1,881 fps might (or, very well MIGHT NOT?) eventually cause some damage after many hundreds (if not thousands?) of rounds, but...

Maybe a box of 22 Shorts in a Model 17 (another "older k frame") would be less distressing?

Cheers!

P.S. My Model 19-3 typically endures 8.0gr at a low 32,500 psi. Interestingly, the lowest velocity jacket 357 Magnum factory ammo I could find was the Remington Golden Sabre BJHP @ 1,220 fps, although there are some reviews that are not particularly positive about its performance.

I was looking at their load for the Barnes XPB. Which starts at 6.2.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I see. My comments referred to the jacketed bullet (the 125gr XTP) that appears in both their 38 Special & 357 Magnum load data.

Cheers!

P.S. Please note that the BARNES load data for their 125gr XPB has no START load with a velocity under 1,459 fps: there are two powders with START loads in excess of 1,700 fps. The factory BARNES ammo in this weight & caliber uses a different bullet, their all copper TAC-XPD and does indicate a velocity close to the Hodgdons START load you mention.

As such, your results may vary considerably...

 

[CorvZ061]

I see. My comments referred to the jacketed bullet (the 125gr XTP) that appears in both their 38 Special & 357 Magnum load data.

Cheers!

P.S. Please note that the BARNES load data for their 125gr XTB has no START load with a velocity under 1,459 fps: there are two powders with START loads in excess of 1,700 fps. The factory BARNES ammo in this weight & caliber uses a different bullet, their all copper TAC-XPD and does indicate a velocity close to the Hodgdons START load you mention.

As such, your results may vary considerably...

I know the Barnes is a copper only bullet, so that might affect pressure and velocity a little. what powder were they quoting surely that’s something like h110 or 2400 or something along those lines. I attached a screenshot from hodgedon for the load I’m thinking about.

 

[buzz754]

My first gun purchase was a new 19 in 1975. I put some .38 through it, but predominantly 125gr 357. I was new to handguns and had no idea that it could be detrimental to over do full house loads. I learned. I had no idea of the differences between an N frame and a K frame. I had no thought of keeping a round count. In about a year that gun was loose as a goose and had what looked like the Grand Canyon at 6 o'clock of the forcing cone. That revolver was beautiful, accurate as hell and toast after I got done with it. Don't treat a K frame like you can an N frame.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Powders I referred to were Lil' Gun & Enforcer...

Their H110 START load was 16.5 gr @ 1,693 fps.

My salient concern was (hopefully) pointing out the difference in bullets and the manufacturer's suggested velocity. Personally I would save those spendy Barnes for a somewhat more aggressive (as in "within the bullet manufacturer's suggested velocities") self-defense loading and shoot something like the much less expen$ive BERRYS 158gr F(lat)P(oint)-T(hick)P(late) bullets (which they say are good up to 1,500 fps) for your 1,200 fps desired load range.

The 6.2gr of CFE-Pistol would probably work pretty well in that application. No real concerns about possible forcing cone damage, either...

Cheers!

 

[John Patrick]

Bullets are cheap. Your 19 is irreplaceable. Why in the world would you risk ruining a classic, irreplaceable Model 19 when for a few bucks you can buy longer 158gr bullets?

 

[CorvZ061]

Powders I referred to were Lil' Gun & Enforcer...

Their H110 START load was 16.5 gr @ 1,693 fps.

My salient concern was (hopefully) pointing out the difference in bullets and the manufacturer's suggested velocity. Personally I would save those spendy Barnes for a somewhat more aggressive (as in "within the bullet manufacturer's suggested velocities") self-defense loading and shoot something like the much less expen$ive BERRYS 158gr F(lat)P(oint)-T(hick)P(late) bullets (which they say are good up to 1,500 fps) for your 1,200 fps desired load range.

The 6.2gr of CFE-Pistol would probably work pretty well in that application. No real concerns about possible forcing cone damage, either...

Cheers!

understood, truth is I'm not using Barnes bullets. was using that load data as a reference point. the actual bullet I'm using are from Everglades ammo, a 125gr full metal jacket. I used up the remainder on my Berry's 158's and found a load with N340 that worked well with them.

 

[CorvZ061]

Bullets are cheap. Your 19 is irreplaceable. Why in the world would you risk ruining a classic, irreplaceable Model 19 when for a few bucks you can buy longer 158gr bullets?

The issue mainly came with hot loaded 125's. I am looking for recommendations for a powder to get a lower end 357 mag since these are just used for shooting steel or poking holes in paper. Why not use what I have if I load them to 1200fps and less pressure than the 1500+fps max pressure that might create a problem eventually?

 

[bmcgilvray]

I'm going to say no. No problem should arise in a Model 19 when using a load that propels a 125 grain bullet to 1200 feet per second.

I'm still shooting magnum loads in my K-Frame Magnums. I happen to gravitate toward the 158 grain bullets in the .357 Magnum, but would have no anxiety over shooting 125 grain bullets if I happened to stump my toe on a large quantity of them.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would not shoot them in a K frame revolver. That's why the L frame was introduced.

Cracked forcing cones are not a legend, it did happen in the older K frames.

How To Avoid Revolver Forcing Cone Failure | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal

 

[stansdds]

The issue with 110 and 125 grain bullets damaging forcing cones comes with the use of heavy charges of ball powders, specifically, H-110/W-296 and whatever equivalent ball powder the major manufacturers use.

Using a faster burning powder will result in reduced velocity and a reduction in erosion. Basically, if you duplicate full power 38 Special, 38 Special +P load or even the "short barrel" 357 Magnum loads, which are reminiscent of the old 38 Special +P+ and 38-44HD loads, you should be just fine using those 125 grain bullets.

Definitely do not load them too light as it is quite possible that a slow bullet will get its jacket stuck in the barrel while the lead core exits and punches a hole in the target.

 

[CorvZ061]

The issue with 110 and 125 grain bullets damaging forcing cones comes with the use of heavy charges of ball powders, specifically, H-110/W-296 and whatever equivalent ball powder the major manufacturers use.

Using a faster burning powder will result in reduced velocity and a reduction in erosion. Basically, if you duplicate full power 38 Special, 38 Special +P load or even the "short barrel" 357 Magnum loads, which are reminiscent of the old 38 Special +P+ and 38-44HD loads, you should be just fine using those 125 grain bullets.

Definitely do not load them too light as it is quite possible that a slow bullet will get its jacket stuck in the barrel while the lead core exits and punches a hole in the target.

I loaded 15 last night with 6.2gr of CFE pistol, 15 with 7.8gr of AA#2, and 15 with 7.5gr of AA#5. Going with a chrono to the outdoor range today to see how they shoot. Also have 50 full power N110 loads for my 686. Will be a fun morning regardless.

 

[rosewood]

Any instances of forcing cone failures with L frames? Or has this been pretty much an issue with K Frame? I would assume J frames have probably experienced it also.

Thanks,

Rosewood

 

[CorvZ061]

Any instances of forcing cone failures with L frames? Or has this been pretty much an issue with K Frame? I would assume J frames have probably experienced it also.

Thanks,

Rosewood

From what I’ve heard it’s only older K frames. If you look at the forcing cone they’re flat bottomed instead of round. L frames are a little bigger, no issues with them. New K frames with 2 piece barrels don’t have the problem either.