32-20 Winchester, Model 1905 4th Change??? -UPDATE

[cmansguns]

I've been watching the two threads about these old but great guns and then I realized that I really don't know much of anything about my old relic.

You can see from the pics that it is 5 screw, 5 inch, fixed sights, I think "U" notch rear, worn grips, but been there done that look to them with no cracks. I locating pin under the extractor star. Square corners on the star, no made in USA on right side, small logo on left side. Long action. Square butt.

The serial number is 105093, and matches on bbl flat, frame, cylinder and under the extractor star. The grips are old and oil stained and there is no remaining evidence of a penciled serial number on right panel.

According to SCSW 4th, this must be a Model 1905 HE in 32-20 WCF, 4th Change as serial numbers show 1915 to 1940 and s/n 65701 to 144684. I never gave this one much thought and I haven't valued it very high in my accumulation, but now reading these threads there is renewed interest and if I can get in the que I'll ask Roy for a ship date, maybe even Letter it someday.

UPDATE: Roy confirmed that the ship date of 32-20 HE, s/n 105093 was October 1921. If there is someone keeping a mini database on these old guns then this is the word from Dr. Roy.

It sure looks like it rode around in leather either on a horse, or in a Model T, maybe a Model A Ford Black & White. Chambers and bore shine like a mirror and mechanically it is very tight, no cylinder shake, no hammer push off....and the grips on these old guys almost feel like K frame Cokes...if there were such a thing

Looking for comments or confirmation from you guys (and gals) that have all the bonafides in these old 32-20 treasures. One of my sons got a line on some factory fresh (no repop or handloads) "cowboy action ammo" he says is 115 gr made for these guns (not rifle loaded). If we get our hands on some of this cowboy stuff, is it really safe? Were these cylinders heat treated or did that come later?

The pics are crummy...I know...maybe better ones when I can get the good camera into action.

 

[StrawHat]

The S&W Winchester Model is a lot of fun. I have a couple of them.

The 5” seems to be the most common. And yes, the U shaped notch would be appropriate for the age of your revolver.

Here is a copy and paste from my notes on heat treated cylinders,

K frame 32-20 heat treating began in 1919 at approximate serial number 81,287. So yours is well into the era of heat treat.

That Cowboy stuff will certainly be safe in your revolver but it can handle more powerful loads. I loaded the Lyman 3118 bullet but I do not remember the powder or charge. It was good on groundhogs and other vermin.

You have a great revolver. Enjoy it.

Two of mine.

Oops, the photo actually is my 6 1/2” 32 WCF paired with a 5” 38 S&W Special! Well, the 5” 32 WCF looks very much the same.

Kevin

 

[JP@AK]

Charlie

Serial number 105093 probably shipped in 1922, based on several nearby serial numbers.

Note that yours lacks the Made in U.S.A. stamp on the right side of the frame. That started in the spring of 1922. Also, the 32 W.C.F. CTG barrel stamp changed to 32-20 CTG in 1922.

A letter is the best way to be certain, but my estimate is in the ballpark.

BTW, all .32-20 HEs had five screws after 1905.

 

[glowe]

. . . Were these cylinders heat treated or did that come later?

If any K frame S&W did not need heat treating, it was the 32-20. One only has to look at the thickness of the barrel and cylinder to know these are more than capable of handling anything manufactured today. Also, it was very likely that most of these revolvers shot their share of Hi-Velocity rifle loads in the past.

 

[Hawg Rider]

The .32-20 HEs are great little revolvers. My .32-20 Model of 1905 4th Change is s/n 118705 (ca. 1923), and has a 6" bbl. with copper bead insert in the front sight. I'm not a reloader (yet!), so I only shoot Cowboy Action loads in mine- when I can find ammo! 115g round nose flat point (RNFP) travels about 800 ft/sec which is great for plinking or CAS. Get out and shoot that revolver, you'll really enjoy it!

 

[Retired W4]

My interest in the 32-20 HEs has increased to the point where I'm on the hunt for a Savage model 23C to go with my revolvers.

 

[glowe]

My interest in the 32-20 HEs has increased to the point where I'm on the hunt for a Savage model 23C to go with my revolvers.

Winchester Model 1892 is another rifle that was chambered in 32-20. Some sell for reasonable prices, if not pristine and in any rare barrel lengths. The Winchester 1885 Low-wall and Stevens falling block both were offered in 32-20 as well. Lastly, Browning Model 53 lever-gun can be found in the same caliber and available as originals and a reproduction. They are very nice guns.

 

[DWalt]

Any .32-20 ammunition sold today (if you can find any) will be well beyond safe. Ammunition is generally scarce and expensive, best to load your own if you plan to shoot it much.

S&W stopped production of the M&P in .32-20 around 1930. But they continued to be sold in small numbers out of factory inventory for another 10 years. They were not nearly as popular as the same revolver chambered in .38 Special. Colt made a much wider variety of revolvers chambered in .32-20 than S&W.

 

[Muley Gil]

I WANT A .32-20 ROLLING BLOCK!!!

Well, got that out of my system.

 

[Retired W4]

The reason I am looking for the Savage 23C is it will also go with my 23A rimfire Sporter. One of the harder magazines to track down was for that little 22. Not ruling out the other 32-20 carbines mentioned above.

 

[dwh]

I WANT A .32-20 ROLLING BLOCK!!!

Well, got that out of my system.

Well here you go!!! Let’s not forget Remington model25’s, marlin 27s and 94s, colt lightings and ballards.

 

[Muley Gil]

Well here you go!!! Let’s not forget Remington model25’s, marlin 27s and 94s, colt lightings and ballards.

But you won't sell it to me!!!!

 

[StrawHat]

I WANT A .32-20 ROLLING BLOCK!!!

Well, got that out of my system.

Gil,

I know a guy! He will be happy to build you one, you supply the action.

Kevin