Mouse Gun for Self Defense

IMHO a .380 would be the bare minimum for EDC. I do consider the .380 to be a "mouse gun" and somewhat effective with a lucky shot or multiple hits. The main attraction is the small size, light weight and high capacity of something like a Ruger LCP Max (10+1) which I think is one of the better .380 pistols. Don't think I could ever bring myself to carry anything less.

Anything less than .380 is gambling, just my opinion.
 
My neighbor, who works at the local range, confidently carries a NAA .22 magnum in his back pocket. His thinking is if the threat is within bad breath distance then a shot to the snotlocker will take care of the problem.

I bought a Colt Junior .25ACP "Mighty Mouse" for a backup gun. I sold it within a month. I could never get a good combat grip on the pistol.

I replaced it with a Colt DS and carried it in a Roy Baker pancake holster for more than 3 decades. I could get a solid combat grip on that gun, which gave me confidence that I could work the gun while fighting for my life.
 
IMHO a .380 would be the bare minimum for EDC. I do consider the .380 to be a "mouse gun" and somewhat effective with a lucky shot or multiple hits. The main attraction is the small size, light weight and high capacity of something like a Ruger LCP Max (10+1) which I think is one of the better .380 pistols. Don't think I could ever bring myself to carry anything less.

Anything less than .380 is gambling, just my opinion.

Not all .380 ACP or .32 ACP handguns are equal. .380 ACP takes a much bigger hit in a shorter barrel than 9mm, and that’s even more the case with .32 ACP. In

The same goes for hollow point bullets. In both cases a hollow point has a fairly narrow velocity envelope where it will expand and still give decent penetration.

Here is a Walther PP with its 3.9” barrel and chambered in .32 ACP.

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This are a pair of Hornady 60 gr XTP hollow points fired at right around 1000 fps. Penetration is about 11 1/2 to 11 5/8”, with the bullet getting pulled back a bit from maximum penetration.

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Bullet expansion isn’t spectacular but it’s consistent and more importantly not so excessive that it significantly under penetrates.

The 90 gr XTP in .380 ACP doesn’t perform that much differently, with penetration in the 12-13” range and comparable expansion, but will do it in the slightly shorter 3.4” barrel of the PPK or PPK/S.

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Now folks might choose to make a huge deal of the above .32 ACP bullets coming up 1/2” short of the FBI minimum standard. But that’s a bit of a red herring. Armed citizens are not shooting at fleeing felons, shooting through barriers, or shooting at other than face to face aspect angles as all of those things most often either start to diminish or entirely remove the presence of an imminent threat.

Folks might also indicate the larger .380 diameter and the comparably larger expanded diameter compared to .32 ACP makes a difference. Well…maybe. You also have to consider that the .32 ACP has much less recoil and in comparable pistols can be fired much faster with greater accuracy, and in comparable pistols the .32 ACP offers an extra round.

In other words, are two .380 ACP bullets more effective than three .32 ACP bullets fired in the same limited time frame? It’s 50% more wound tracks and 50% more chance of getting a cardio pulmonary or CNS hit.
 
Live in a small city. Deal with lots of folks on the street. Often they come to the church because they need help... food, clothes, etc. Seldom is a problem. Over the last two years, have had three people who got angry, belligerent when for whatever reason we could not meet their needs. My volunteers are all senior citizens, certainly not in any condition to defend themselves or protect anyone else from an assault. I routinely handle these situations. All interviews take place outside the building. I almost always have a little PPK/S in my pocket. I've shot it enough DA/SA to know that I can hit effectively even without a good grip, etc. Will retire the end of Sept. That little PPK/S will continue to go in my pocket when I'm out and about for the same reason it is in my pocket as I prepare to leave and head out for the office. It was with me yesterday while dealing with a family situation, later when at a lunch meeting and then last night at a committee meeting. Very much doubt anyone had any inkling that I was armed. I figure that is what CC is all about ... don't attract attention by odd dress, accidentally printing, etc. Have near at hand ready to go if need be. Sincerely. bruce.
 
I don't see the need to carry a smaller caliber - we are in the age of micro compact 9mm guns like the P365. When you can have 10+1 of 9mm in a package that small, you really have to wonder why you would carry a mouse gun.

The video showed an effective surprise use of a lower caliber against an apparently unarmed individual. However, had the assailant had his own gun drawn (think of a robbery situation), then I don't think we would call this "stopping power", as the bad guy would be not only inclined, but likely able, to return fire. I don't consider it stopping power if they guy has the ability to return fire. I'd rather he drop like a stone on the first shot.
 
I live in FL, and sometimes dressing around a belt carried gun is miserable (HOT). And having to dress up/down as I go about my days is no fun either. For this reason, I always carry an LCP Max in my front pocket. I still often carry a Shield+ IWB or OWB, but not overly concerned when I choose not to.
 
Not all .380 ACP or .32 ACP handguns are equal. .380 ACP takes a much bigger hit in a shorter barrel than 9mm, and that’s even more the case with .32 ACP. In

The same goes for hollow point bullets. In both cases a hollow point has a fairly narrow velocity envelope where it will expand and still give decent penetration.

Here is a Walther PP with its 3.9” barrel and chambered in .32 ACP.

001(77).jpg


This are a pair of Hornady 60 gr XTP hollow points fired at right around 1000 fps. Penetration is about 11 1/2 to 11 5/8”, with the bullet getting pulled back a bit from maximum penetration.

001(75).jpg


001(74).jpg


Bullet expansion isn’t spectacular but it’s consistent and more importantly not so excessive that it significantly under penetrates.

The 90 gr XTP in .380 ACP doesn’t perform that much differently, with penetration in the 12-13” range and comparable expansion, but will do it in the slightly shorter 3.4” barrel of the PPK or PPK/S.

——

Now folks might choose to make a huge deal of the above .32 ACP bullets coming up 1/2” short of the FBI minimum standard. But that’s a bit of a red herring. Armed citizens are not shooting at fleeing felons, shooting through barriers, or shooting at other than face to face aspect angles as all of those things most often either start to diminish or entirely remove the presence of an imminent threat.

Folks might also indicate the larger .380 diameter and the comparably larger expanded diameter compared to .32 ACP makes a difference. Well…maybe. You also have to consider that the .32 ACP has much less recoil and in comparable pistols can be fired much faster with greater accuracy, and in comparable pistols the .32 ACP offers an extra round.

In other words, are two .380 ACP bullets more effective than three .32 ACP bullets fired in the same limited time frame? It’s 50% more wound tracks and 50% more chance of getting a cardio pulmonary or CNS hit.

The only responsible and real choice in 380 on down is ball.
 

Good video. Thanks.

.32 calibers always seem to punch above their weight.

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I don’t know why and I don’t care. If I was still likely to shoot at people in cars I wouldn’t carry a .32, but I’m not. I don’t care if my Beretta Model 81 is bigger than a P365 because I like my Beretta.

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It really doesn’t matter. I still carry a gun because I like guns and it gives me an excuse to buy more guns. If I actually have to pull one again in defense of myself or others I’m sure my .32 (or .380 or .38 or 9mm or .357 or .45) will do just fine.

I’m about to head out onto the mean streets of my whitebread Colorado town and I believe one of my .32s will get the nod today. Wish me luck.
 

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How old does one have to be to be a Fudd? I’m pretty sure I qualify unless there are age restrictions. I’ll be 54 next month. That being said, I retired my .32 Tomcat with Crimson Trace laser grips for a P365. It’s not that I don’t trust the .32 to perform. It’s reliable and very accurate. But the Sig gives me more and bigger rounds. It’s also half the price to practice with. I’ve also been known to carry a .22mag mini revolver and .25 Baretta.
 
I find this to be a most interesting thread and fully respect everyone's views. I would like to add, however, that the lowly 22 is far from useless and its handling may be all some people are capable of. I really do not know but I would guess that most of you have never been hit by a bullet----I have and it was a 1944 vintage Remington lo-vel 22lr target solid out of a 2" High Standard Sentinel revolver. It struck into my left armpit and went up into my neck and lodged very close to my spinal chord and faced in the opposite direction of its entry---so it tumbled. The doctor said the wound channel measured 17 inches. I was knocked to the ground with much authority and it took me about 15-20 seconds to realize I had been hit. My arm felt like it was a hit funny bone and I was not able to do much with it for at least a full minute. I know the 22lr is not ideal but it can take the fight out of you at least for a while.
 
During Army Basic Training we were advised 2 shots in the chest plus 1 in the head...if the situation cooperates.
 
I'm still not sure what qualifies as a mouse gun. Based on size, my Bodyguard .380 is a mouse gun, as was my first gen LCP before it. But when I saw the ballistics test results for the Hydrashock Deep, how it met the FBI standard for penetration and expansion, I switched to that as my carry round. That round sure doesn't perform like a mouse gun.
 
“Mouse gun” is just a derisive nickname given to small caliber carry guns by big bore boys.

I wouldn’t think a .380 or snub .38 Special would be considered one. A .25 or .22 - yes. A .32, maybe by someone who doesn’t know better.
 
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