HP 38

[sniper]

I have heard that HP 38 is the same powder as 231, but I notice some large differences in my manuals, varying, sometimes one, sometimes the other. (same manual.)
I've never had much luck with Bullseye, and wonder if HP 38 or CFE Pistol would be a better powder than AA#5, Unique or Universal for 148 gr. DEWC loads...357 brass/standard primers...@~ 800 fps? Hopefully, that will give a load that is close to .38 Spl. +P, exceeding 15,000 psi; mild, for a cleaner powder burn, and won't produce leading.
What say, revolver mavens?

 

[SVT28]

W231 and HP38 is the same powder. I started my reloading hobby with it for 38 special, it's an excellent choice.

SVT28

 

[Nevada Ed]

A very good powder for the lead 148 &158 bullet weights, in a 38 special,
as all the rest of the "Fast" burning powders, out there, used in light target loads.

I consider Unique a little on the slow side for revolver target loads but it can work
if you don't mind wasting powder, on light target loads.

You get 1 more round every 6-7 rounds with the faster powders.

 

[rockquarry]

Different charges can be caused by several things; different powder lots, different operators/ loaders, different bullets, different brass, and different primers. 231 and HP-38 are certainly the same powder. Industry variances in burn rates for different powder lots of the "same" powder may be somewhere around an allowable 3% - 4%, a good reason to buy powder in larger containers than the 1 lb. versions, unless you're just looking for a powder to try.

In my experience, I've found 231 / HP-38 to be an excellent .38 Special powder, but I've found Bullseye to be equally good, depending on the load. I'm speaking of both accuracy (#1) and velocity (#2).

I've never used CFE pistol, but I've used #5, Universal, and Unique that you've listed along with many more powders. Using .357 brass will require a slightly greater powder charge than using .38 brass but experimenting and shooting lots of benchrested groups will get you where you want to be. I'd use .38 brass for .38 Special loads.

I've never seen nor understood the popular "clean powder burn", epecially when using cast bullets. In more than fifty years of loading handgun cartridges, I've found that very dirty guns take no longer to clean than mildly dirty guns. Same for smudged fingertips. If you're getting good accuracy and no leading, you have a good load, "dirty" or not.

 

[GypsmJim]

I started loading with Bullseye in 1972. If I had a problem with it I guess I just didn't know it. For target shooting I always thought it was the best, depending on caliber.

Ditto for Unique, although it's not the topic of this discussion. Then once when it was hard to get, and I stopped at a local gun shop, the talkers standing around the gun bench told me that was no good either. Just another thing I never knew.

At any rate, because of supply chain issues, and my ability to get some HP-38, I bought as much as I could get. I found data from 38 to 41, so I thought I was good to go. Turns out it works well in all my handguns.

I bought it from Hodgdon directly and it was them that said 231 was the same.

 

[twodog max]

I have used 231/HP38 since it came out and that is a long time. I like it for its versatility and easy metering. I am certain there are better powders for certain applications and maybe cleaner ones but I will stick with one I know.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Some cartridge data is difficult to get, however if your handgun or PCC is not a Magnum WW231/HP38 will do a great job. I have loaded from 32 ACP up to 45 Colt. When my friend needs a box of ammo to try out a new handgun, it is loaded with a middle of the road cast bullet loading. He is always surprised at how accurate it is! It is also good for Jacketed and coated bullets too.

My personal stash of WW231/HP38 (I own both) is down to around 25 to 30 pounds. I doubt I will shoot it all before I go to that reloading bench in the sky!

Ivan

 

[GypsmJim]

Some cartridge data is difficult to get, however if your handgun or PCC is not a Magnum WW231/HP38 will do a great job.

I don't make up my own loads. If it's not in a handbook, I don't try it.

Don't know about other calibers, but I have good published data for .357 Magnum and .41 Magnum.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Different charges can be caused by several things; different powder lots, different operators/ loaders, different bullets, different brass, and different primers. 231 and HP-38 are certainly the same powder. Industry variances in burn rates for different powder lots of the "same" powder may be somewhere around an allowable 3% - 4%, a good reason to buy powder in larger containers than the 1 lb. versions, unless you're just looking for a powder to try.

In my experience, I've found 231 / HP-38 to be an excellent .38 Special powder, but I've found Bullseye to be equally good, depending on the load. I'm speaking of both accuracy (#1) and velocity (#2).

I've never used CFE pistol, but I've used #5, Universal, and Unique that you've listed along with many more powders. Using .357 brass will require a slightly greater powder charge than using .38 brass but experimenting and shooting lots of benchrested groups will get you where you want to be. I'd use .38 brass for .38 Special loads.

I've never seen nor understood the popular "clean powder burn", epecially when using cast bullets. In more than fifty years of loading handgun cartridges, I've found that very dirty guns take no longer to clean than mildly dirty guns. Same for smudged fingertips. If you're getting good accuracy and no leading, you have a good load, "dirty" or not.

I have used CFE-p and BE-86 with 2-6" 38 special loads and also, 6" 357 Magnum loads.
Both can give you accurate loads but with more powder, since they are a medium burning powder, per my results.

There are many faster powders that will preform, just as well, in my revolvers,
so I will save both these fine grained powders for medium to full power loads, for my small volume, 9mm cased with 124 to 147 gr bullets.

However, if it works for you in the 38 and 357, use it.

 

[stansdds]

HP-38 and W-231 are definitely the same powder. The variations in load data you see from one manual to another are the result of the use of different primers, brass, bullets, firearms. Differences between HP-38 and W-231 from the same manual can be due to variations across different powder lots.

 

[Mike in Reedley]

Ever since Hodgedon bought Winchester powders, HP-38 and 231 have been the same. My understanding is that before the merger, there was a very slight difference. Old loading manuals sometimes reflect that difference.

 

[DWalt]

I've never seen nor understood the popular "clean powder burn", epecially when using cast bullets. In more than fifty years of loading handgun cartridges, I've found that very dirty guns take no longer to clean than mildly dirty guns. Same for smudged fingertips. If you're getting good accuracy and no leading, you have a good load, "dirty" or not.

After over 50 years of shooting and reloading, a "Dirty" powder is at the very tail end of my concerns. As above, I am incapable of understanding why some apparently want make a big deal out of it. Maybe someone can explain it.

In what way are you not having any luck with Bullseye? For well over 100 years, it has been the go-to propellant for competitive target shooters, and they apparently have plenty of luck with it. And why are you using .357 cases instead of .38 Special for DEWC target loads. At least it seems like what you want to do, I don't know.

 

[skwchock]

I agree with GypsmJim -- if it is not in my handbook. I don't load it.

 

[jm7480]

I have heard that HP 38 is the same powder as 231,
What say, revolver mavens?

It is the same powder. I use 231 when I was unable to find HP38.

 

[sniper]

Yo, Ivan

My personal stash of WW231/HP38 (I own both) is down to around 25 to 30 pounds. I doubt I will shoot it all before I go to that reloading bench in the sky!Ivan

Too bad you can't take it with you! Hopefully, you'll be around long enough to shoot it all up!

 

[sniper]

I've never seen nor understood the popular "clean powder burn", especially when using cast bullets.

"Clean powder burn" = no unburned grains left...at least in my mind. As for the soot, etc...all part of shooting.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

W231 is identical to HP-38. W296 is the same powder as H110.

Hodgdon has been threatening to discontinue W231 and HP-38 for almost 10 years now. W244, aka "Winclean" is supposed to be it's replacement. W244 is marketed as "cleaner" but they aren't just talking about powder residue. They are also referring to the manufacturing process, which is apparently more eco friendly than older ball powders.

Personally, I don't need a cleaner burning version of W231/HP-38, nor do I care about copper fouling reducers in a powder I shoot primarily with cast bullets.

 

[stansdds]

I never found HP-38 or W-231 to be particularly dirty. At minimum recommended loadings, you will likely see some partially burned granules, but that is just a property of any flammable/combustable item. The higher the pressure/temperature at which it is burned, the more completely it burns.

 

[Krogen]

I don't understand the issue of clean powders either. Shooting can be "dirty business" just like working on cars. Take up black powder shooting and then all smokeless powders will seem clean!

 

[H Richard]

HP38 is Identical to 231, made by the same manufacturer. It has been my "go to" powder for many years. I load .32, .38, 9mm, 44 Special, .45 acp with it and many thousands of rounds downrange with it. I find the accuracy with it as +++++ great.