Factory 357 mag brass incorrect OAL

[Krogen]

Hornady does this in other calibers also and I believe, especially for a company that does a gujillion things for handloaders and for a company that markets a gujillion products specifically to handloaders, this is an absolutely abhorrent practice and Hornady should be violently and publicly flogged for it.

Just this guy's opinion, and for the record, I am absolutely a Hornady fan.

Same here! I can't see how this would be in alignment with SAAMI. This is as irresponsible as Hodgdon's Clays debacle. They came out with 3 "kinds" of Clays Powder. Eventually they fixed their mess up. I don't see Hornady doing the same.

I don't need Hornandy's (or Hodgdon's) help in messing up my handloads. I can do fine on my own!

 

[Model19man]

Guess I am lucky I never bought any Hornady 357 Mag brass.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not sure what's happening here. New .357 Magnum brass made by Hornady is not shorter than any other. Only the brass from the factory FTX AMMO is shorter than standard length.

 

[deputydon]

Short 32-20

Few days ago I decided to trim my 32-20 brass for uniformity sake. I set up my case trimmer for 1.315" per a loading manual. After trimming a few I found some the trimmer wasn't contacting so started checking length with my dial calipers and found the short ones @ 1.280-281. At this point I decided to cease and check for difference between revolver and rifle brass. I had previously loaded some for a HE and upon plunk testing found they were longer than the cylinder. I seated them lower and they shot fine. Now I am concerned maybe I am using rifle brass in my revolver. Will let you know what I find.

-don

Thanks to member Alk8944!
Case length: The only cases in this caliber that I am aware of being full length (1.315) are Remington, and this has been the case since at least the 1970s! All other manufacturers use a length of 1.275" This includes Winchester and Starline. I am not aware of any other manufacturers loading .32-20 at all.

-don

 

[Nevada Ed]

I don't understand why one would "Toss" the shortened FTX , .357 case away
with the price that the companies are asking for 357 cases, now?

Adjusting the crimp die is not that hard.

I doubt that identical loads out of a standard and FXT case at 50 yards would be much different, in group size.

 

[Sevens]

For sure you can make them work, I agree with that. The obnoxious annoyance is when you are processing a couple hundred rounds of brass only to find that six of them aren't like the others.

No, the world is not coming to an end. It's a really annoying hassle, and this kind of annoyance certainly happens at the load bench, but there is a special added kink in this one because usually the stupidity comes directly from some hack outfit making something substandard or out of spec (reference classic A-MERC or that stepped brass from Freedom Munitions)

It's a special kind of thumb in your eye when it's Hornady -- when you consider Hornady's relationship with handloaders.

I'm not saying we should revolt and start a fire in Grand Island, NE. I'm just saying that all of these gripes and complaints are VALID.

 

[mikld]

One of my first and most important steps is inspection. Looking, then cleaning, then inspecting has kept "problem" brass from being a reloading problem (including odd length brass)...

I like reloading and very little about it is "annoying". But I've never been in a hurry nor had a quota to be met.

 

[Sevens]

I'm also pretty detailed in my case inspection... I go by sound and very much by headstamp but case length is a lot harder to notice.

 

[Miracle Man]

For sure you can make them work, I agree with that. The obnoxious annoyance is when you are processing a couple hundred rounds of brass only to find that six of them aren't like the others.

No, the world is not coming to an end. It's a really annoying hassle, and this kind of annoyance certainly happens at the load bench, but there is a special added kink in this one because usually the stupidity comes directly from some hack outfit making something substandard or out of spec (reference classic A-MERC or that stepped brass from Freedom Munitions)

It's a special kind of thumb in your eye when it's Hornady -- when you consider Hornady's relationship with handloaders.

I'm not saying we should revolt and start a fire in Grand Island, NE. I'm just saying that all of these gripes and complaints are VALID.

I make no claim to being a reloading/powder/case length/pressure expert, in any way. But to me they're dipping a toe in the no go zone in doing this. They're marking brass marked 357 MAG that's not really made to 357 specs.

Now in most revolvers is having brass a bit short an issue? no obviously we shoot 38's in our magnums, but.

I understand case volume matters as far as pressure goes. If someone loads a full charge of H110 in one of those short cases and doesn't notice he's compressed the charge, a lot, and doesn't notice the bullet didn't seat properly and then fires it what happens??

To me they should mark those cases 357 mag lever or 357 short or something ?

 

[Miracle Man]

I'm also pretty detailed in my case inspection... I go by sound and very much by headstamp but case length is a lot harder to notice.

I started reloading 44 Mag and 45 LC for revolvers of course, several years ago. I've reloaded rifle since like 1982 or something. I just recently started reloading 9mm/45ACP for semi autos. Anywho

I loaded a lot of full power H110 loads in 44 mag using Starline brass. I resized it trimmed all to length, little was needed and measured many of them.

After firing I inspected the cases and measured a lot of them - nothing. After firing a given case two or three times the OAL hadn't changed at all or just barely .01 or so. Still in spec so I basically quit measuring.

I've read in many reloading manuals and gun books where respected writers have said "there's very little if any need to trim pistol cases" " it's rare to have to"

Now rifle, totally different story.

Am I missing something?

Oh and by the way I'm in no way a speed is my only goal reloader.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I guess Hornady could (mayhaps, should?) mark those shorter FTX cases with some kind of indicator? It is also easy to imagine what a relatively smaller % of these ever actually make it into the reloading stream vs. being fired once as factory ammo and then discarded...

Not making excuses for them, just trying to be practical. Not having a lever action in these calibers I just load them in standard length cases.

Cheers!

P.S. I would need to be a pretty heavy (as in OVER MAX) load to have a serious effect vis-a-vis using a 0.050" shorter than 357 Magnum case. The difference between a 38 Special and a 357 Magnum case is over 2 1/2 times as much. Not so much like the smaller semi-automatic pistol calibers with much less case capacity.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't know, worrying about 3/100" in a rifle long case or throwing away .357 brass for A 5/100" different doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Sevens]

I don't believe the difference is ever going to be a pressure issue. The difference in case length is absolutely a crimping issue, that's certain.

So yes, if you had 50 or 100 of them and you kept them segregated, they could be used with little extra effort. Mixed in with your regular brass as it's been made for the last -85- years and now it's an annoyance worth griping about.

For a handloader, it's at least as annoying as QR code store discounts to a luddite.

 

[Krogen]

I'm not sure what's happening here. New .357 Magnum brass made by Hornady is not shorter than any other. Only the brass from the factory FTX AMMO is shorter than standard length.

The rub is that their short brass carries the same headstamp as SAAMI-compliant brass. Not just the .357 Magnum, but other brass originally loaded with FTX bullets. Hornady has roots as a reloading company. IMHO, it's irresponsible for them to do this without a headstamp change.

 

[M29since14]

Yes, it’s shorter. Hornady has been clear about that so it’s no great mystery. For those who are outraged, I will take all of the Hornady .357 brass anyone cares to give me. I’ll even be generous and pay flat-rate shipping for full boxes. (I use it for .357 loads with a certain cast bullet that has a particularly long nose.)

 

[smithra_66]

So I just finished loading some 357 mag with 140 gr Hornady FTX's using CFE Pistol. I had inside/outside chamfered the mouths and was like a dozen cases in when I pulled a round out of the seating die station and noticed the cannelure was fully showing.

My first thought was I short stroked the lever so I seated it again, still showing full cannelure. So I got to looking closer and stood it up beside a previously loaded round. And I'm like that brass is short and I know it. So I pulled bullet and sure enough it's only 1.252. Factory specs as you all know for 357 is 1.290.

So I pulled my can of 357 brass out probably had 100 cases in it and went thru them all and found two more. All three are Hornady. I'm like 99.875% sure this was once fired factory brass. Anybody else ever seen this?

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I've seen the exact same thing with Hornady brass. It's by far my least favorite brass. I avoid it. In rifles it also is the least durable.

 

[jcelect]

This is about the same as small primer 45ACP brass. Who ever thought that was a good idea or made a better round is missing a few brain cells! It is nothing but a PIMA! As stated above, many times, inspect your brass!
jcelect

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The rub is that their short brass carries the same headstamp as SAAMI-compliant brass. Not just the .357 Magnum, but other brass originally loaded with FTX bullets. Hornady has roots as a reloading company. IMHO, it's irresponsible for them to do this without a headstamp change.

I guess it's just me but I see no necessity to change the head stamp on brass for such a small difference in case length. Like I said above, their new for hand loading cases are no different than any other company's brass, just the brass once shot from the FTX factory ammo.

Also like said above, the shorter brass for the FTX ammo is widely advertised and no mystery at all.

 

[Sevens]

You got it!

It's just you.

 

[Miracle Man]

Yes, it’s shorter. Hornady has been clear about that so it’s no great mystery. For those who are outraged, I will take all of the Hornady .357 brass anyone cares to give me. I’ll even be generous and pay flat-rate shipping for full boxes. (I use it for .357 loads with a certain cast bullet that has a particularly long nose.)

I'm not "outraged". And I'm not sure anybody else is either? I like Hornady products, and I'll continue to use them I'm sure. I just feel they should not mark the brass 357 Mag if it's not really 357 Mag.

That's all