At what distance is a threat no longer “a threat”?

[otis24]

I was watching a Gun Blast video reviewing a customized Model 10. The presenter stated that the sights were regulated out to 15 yards. He made the statement that if you fired at a threat at a distance greater than 15 yards, you have some explaining to do. So, at what distance does a threat cease to be a threat? At what distance does a justifiable shooting cease to be justifiable because the distance between you and the threat minimizes the danger?

 

[RCL-09]

Is the assailant armed? What are they armed with? The mall shooter was stopped at 40 yards. Are you mobile? Wheelchair? Walker? Cane? Are you alone?


There are just too many variables to say what distance is "justified".

 

[johngalt]

At the range I shoot, apparently most think its about 5 yards.

 

[ImDrRich]

Ever hear of the 21 foot rule?

Here's a quote from google:

According to research, a person charging toward you with a knife or other sharp-edged instrument can travel 21 feet in the time it would take you to recognize that there is a threat, draw your firearm, and fire two shots.

"It's simply the principle that an average person can sprint 21 feet in roughly 1.5 seconds. Incidentally, that's about the same time it takes an officer to draw a firearm and fire two unaimed shots.”

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Depends on what he’s doing.
He’s Leaving? Not very far.
He’s Setting up on a support and he got a scoped Rifle?
Long ways! Time to leave!
Can’t - don’t wanna leave?
Take cover!

 

[djohns6]

There are just too many variables to say what distance is "justified".

This is the correct answer .

 

[URIT]

A shooting is no longer justifiable when the prosecutor and the media say it isn't. Remember, we have social justice rather than criminal justice in many locales.

 

[BKLooney]

If the person continues to be a threat to your life then he's still within distance.

 

[Pisgah]

It's a disease associated with gun writing. The symptoms include tossing off ill-conceived, authoritative-sounding quips that usually don't amount to squat. In short, a compulsion to sound cool...

 

[lihpster]

On flat, level ground, a distance of 6 feet, if measured on the vertical axis.

 

[Goldstar225]

The reality is that anytime you use deadly force you have some explaining to do.

People who claim that you can't justify shooting someone beyond XX distance don't know what they're talking about. The sole determining factor is whether a reasonable person would believe themselves to be in jeopardy of loss of life or serious injury is the key.

Someone 20 yards away with a knife? Nope
Someone 50 yards away with a rifle that's firing at you? Yep.

Each case has to be decided on it's own merits based upon the actions of the offender. Has he demonstrated (words/actions) intent to harm, does he have the opportunity to cause harm, and does he have the capability to cause harm.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Ever hear of the 21 foot rule?

Here's a quote from google:

According to research, a person charging toward you with a knife or other sharp-edged instrument can travel 21 feet in the time it would take you to recognize that there is a threat, draw your firearm, and fire two shots.

"It's simply the principle that an average person can sprint 21 feet in roughly 1.5 seconds. Incidentally, that's about the same time it takes an officer to draw a firearm and fire two unaimed shots.”

Tueler Rule

 

[biku324]

Trying to find a simple rule that always applies and can be mechanically applied is folly.

 

[Rustyt1953]

This is why I carry a pistol in my pocket and a tape measure on my belt.

 

[ispcapt]

There is no Tueler Rule. It is not a rule. It's Tueler Drill.
It is a training method called the Tueler Drill. It's named after Dennis Tueler, SLC PD, who developed it as a training method to demonstrate that even at 21 feet a person with a knife can still overtake a person and cause injury before a person with a firearm can react and fire. The reason for 21 ft was because reviewing many incidents of police being injured LEOs thought if they kept away from a person about 7 yds then they were safe from attack. Tueler showed with his training drill that even at 21 ft a LEO could still be attacked and injured before being able to draw a weapon.
I've seen a lot of depts train with the Tueler Drill and do it wrong. The LEO in the scenario knows the attack is coming and is prepared to draw his firearm. As a result they can get 1 to 2 rounds off before the attacker covers the distance. In real world that LEO won't know the attacker is going to charge. When the drill is properly taught the LEO is caught cold and seldom gets his firearm out of the holster and cannot get his firearm on target to take the shot before contact is made. What the Tueler Drill teaches is as soon as the attacker makes movement then the LEO needs to get off line to create distance.
Please don't call it a rule. It will bite you later. In several civil cases attorneys have picked up on it being called a rule and have used it to influence a jury. You violated the rule. It's not a rule. It's nothing more than a training method.
How far is a threat? So the gun blast guy thinks it's 15 yards. He's full of it. Typically those who set X distance, be it 5 yds, 15 yds, whatever, they'll admit that's all the farther than can hit anything. Anyone who says X number of feet is the threat then let someone shoot at them from that distance. You're under deadly threat no matter how far away someone is shooting at you.
I've done quite a few deadly force shooting investigations and have taken incoming fire. If someone is shooting at you then he's a threat.

 

[Rustyt1953]

With my glacier-like reflexes it would be a stretch to distance myself from a spy balloon.

 

[RCL-09]

21-Foot Principle Clarified by Dennis Tueller and Ken Wallentine - YouTube

 

[LCC]

likely distance goes hand in hand with whether the supposed assailant was shot in the front or in the back.

 

[colt_saa]

I was watching a Gun Blast video reviewing a customized Model 10. The presenter stated that the sights were regulated out to 15 yards. He made the statement that if you fired at a threat at a distance greater than 15 yards, you have some explaining to do. So, at what distance does a threat cease to be a threat? At what distance does a justifiable shooting cease to be justifiable because the distance between you and the threat minimizes the danger?

While there are many valid points in this thread, the laws of the Jurisdiction that the shooting occurred in are also relevant

Identical incidents in Cocoa Beach Florida and NY City would most likely have different final results.

 

[Rudi]

Every situation will be different. If the bad guy has an MG42, call it 500 yards?