I don't care about the math. The 40 has been a reliable performer in police shootings since it's inception and with any commonly available bullets; 9mm, not so much.
.40 vs 9mm
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LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Interesting post. Lots of good input.
I was late climbing on the .40 S&W wagon. Purchased my first in about 2001, a Kahr P40 for a very compact lightweight piece. Worked very well, but 16.1 oz. pistols and 180-grain slugs make for some harsh range sessions.
In 2018 I found a Certified Pre-Owned Sig P229, LE trade-in factory refurbished to as new condition, in the box with 3 mags and one-year Sig warranty, all for a stupid low price that I would not pass up (about 1/3 of MSRP). The added size and weight make it very comfortable to shoot, and it is both very accurate and very reliable. I actually shopped for and purchased a factory 10-round mag for the possibility of finding myself in one of those states with such restrictions.
Still had plenty of .40 ammo, brass, reloading dies, and bullet mold so I'm good to go for the long haul. Interesting possibility in the factory .357 Sig barrel as a drop-in, no other changes needed (even uses the same mags).
With millions of .40 pistols in circulation, especially the many LEO trade-ins available, I doubt that the .40 will become extinct.
I was late climbing on the .40 S&W wagon. Purchased my first in about 2001, a Kahr P40 for a very compact lightweight piece. Worked very well, but 16.1 oz. pistols and 180-grain slugs make for some harsh range sessions.
In 2018 I found a Certified Pre-Owned Sig P229, LE trade-in factory refurbished to as new condition, in the box with 3 mags and one-year Sig warranty, all for a stupid low price that I would not pass up (about 1/3 of MSRP). The added size and weight make it very comfortable to shoot, and it is both very accurate and very reliable. I actually shopped for and purchased a factory 10-round mag for the possibility of finding myself in one of those states with such restrictions.
Still had plenty of .40 ammo, brass, reloading dies, and bullet mold so I'm good to go for the long haul. Interesting possibility in the factory .357 Sig barrel as a drop-in, no other changes needed (even uses the same mags).
With millions of .40 pistols in circulation, especially the many LEO trade-ins available, I doubt that the .40 will become extinct.
Lobo..... similar boat
Came across a used but anib 229 with both .40 and .357Sig barrels and 4 mags in 2011/12 [IIRC<$500 OTD]; added a couple more mags. It's my only .40 or .357sig.
After Sandyhook the only ammo on the shelf at a local Dunhams was .40 and .357Sig..... they never marked it up ..... so I bought a 50rd box or two a week until it too dried up... have a nice TEOTWAWKI stash.
Came across a used but anib 229 with both .40 and .357Sig barrels and 4 mags in 2011/12 [IIRC<$500 OTD]; added a couple more mags. It's my only .40 or .357sig.
After Sandyhook the only ammo on the shelf at a local Dunhams was .40 and .357Sig..... they never marked it up ..... so I bought a 50rd box or two a week until it too dried up... have a nice TEOTWAWKI stash.
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Edit to add ...... one round of 12 gauge 00 buck is said, by many, to be the best one shot man stopper......... 9 IIRC .33-.36" pellets all hitting at once!
No one factor makes any round "good" or "the best"..... the .40 works so will the 9mm and .380 and even the .32acp.
To the OP I think the .40 will be around for a long time..... but may fade over time like the once popular 44/40 and .45 long colt..... or the .41 mag; touted when introduced as the future of Police ammo.
The .45acp and 9mm both are still going strong after 100 years.
Only time will tell! Till then set your Phaser on stun?
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Lets stick to the topic, ammo not the guns.
venomballistics
Member
the main advantage of 9MM is simply that it is the cheapest centerfire cartridge you can find to shoot.
bullet advancement arguments are null and void as the vast majority of ammo in the wild is FMJ.
The raw volume of production behind the 9 is why it's nerfing all else.
bullet advancement arguments are null and void as the vast majority of ammo in the wild is FMJ.
The raw volume of production behind the 9 is why it's nerfing all else.
Great fun these caliber wars huh 
My real take on the 9 vs the 40 is that when good loads from both are combined with good shot placement there's not a nickel's worth of difference in the real world of effectiveness for self defense between the two. The 9mm is the world standard for handguns and sub machine guns,
tons of FMJ ammo is available for reasonable prices making it the best bang for the buck. It is probably more popular today than ever. It will continue to thrive and the 40 will survive but will gradually just fade into the background.
My real take on the 9 vs the 40 is that when good loads from both are combined with good shot placement there's not a nickel's worth of difference in the real world of effectiveness for self defense between the two. The 9mm is the world standard for handguns and sub machine guns, tons of FMJ ammo is available for reasonable prices making it the best bang for the buck. It is probably more popular today than ever. It will continue to thrive and the 40 will survive but will gradually just fade into the background.
Bratwurst tastes better than hotdogs.
Sig 226s and 229s chambered in 40 can be converted to 9mm with just barrel, recoil spring, and magazine changes. The slides aren't even marked with the chambering. Go look. Only 1 slide and only 1 extractor. I have a P226 with a 40 barrel, and a P229 DA/SA 40, and another 40 DAK. And a spare 226 9mm barrel, and a 229 barrel in .357 SIG.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
In caliber wars I go with the 45 ACP.
Why .45ACP?
Because I See Inmates Everyday Walking Around with 9mm Holes in them...
Why .45ACP?
Because I See Inmates Everyday Walking Around with 9mm Holes in them...
Paul in Nevada
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This is not accurate. A 40/357 to 9mm conversion requires either a slide change and a factory barrel or a conversion barrel from BarSto or EFK.
Info - Barrel Conversion Tables | SIG Talk
The real lesson......
The real lesson from those big encounters wasn't that they needed 9mm, .40, 10mm or .45. In some fights carbines and rifles were needed. You can waffle back and forth on handgun calibers forever.
The real lesson from those big encounters wasn't that they needed 9mm, .40, 10mm or .45. In some fights carbines and rifles were needed. You can waffle back and forth on handgun calibers forever.
cmj8591
Member
It's a merry-go-round. Everyone has 9mm's now with super high tech bullets that defy the laws of physics. Someone will get into a shoot out and pump 10 rounds into the bad guy who goes on to kill everyone before he bleeds to death. There will be lots of hand wringing and money thrown at junk science to justify a bigger, harder hitting handgun. Some 110 pound book keeper won't be able to qualify at the academy and more money will be spent to figure out that big calibers have more recoil than small calibers and there will be an epiphany that everyone should be carrying a smaller caliber. This has been going on for the history of handguns for defensive uses in the US. Don't get rid of your 40's or 45's or 10mm's. Just stand still and the merry-go-round will turn and they will come back into style just like bell bottoms. (Well, maybe not bell bottoms!)
I have the answer!
The definitive answer to the question .40 vs 9mm is 10mm!
Glad I could help
The definitive answer to the question .40 vs 9mm is 10mm!
Glad I could help
Already lived through that cycle in the '90s, except it was three 9mm shootings in a row with poor results. Winchester Silvertip 115 grain +P and Federal 147 grain Hydrashock.
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Carry whatever gun/ammo combo that you feel confident with and makes you happy. There's not enough of a imeaningful difference between 90% of handgun ammo to worry about. Just put what you're carrying where it counts.
We have more than a few examples of .40 and 9mm as well as other pistol calibers and like all of them. They each have their strengths. In the event of worry about the effectiveness of any handgun I stick to this one.
The issue weapon of Sandmen and works excellently on runners trying to avoid carousel.
The issue weapon of Sandmen and works excellently on runners trying to avoid carousel.
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Yes they did, after S&W gave them all new magazines since VSP had decided they were the cause of problems (couldn't possibly be the training). S&W offered us the reject mags at $5 each. We took substantial numbers of them and only found two to be problems.
The S&W sales rep for the area told us while we were shopping for a semi service pistol to avoid the frame mounted decocker versions. FWIW, he stated that the FBI told S&W that if they wanted the contract, they'd find a way to have a Sig-Sauer like decocking lever. We went with the base 1006 and they gave outstanding service 1992-2006. We abandoned them only because we couldn't get ammo in the quantities we needed.
I had multiple friends/acquaintances at the FBI site at Quantico. There was much politics involved in the 10 mm thing. Judging from some memo copies I got, I expect everything related to firearm/caliber issues was political, but budget did play a part in the return to the 9 mm.
OTOH, I belonged to a LE firearms instructor chat board. There were several agencies that jumped on the .40 bandwagon that later regretted it. Qual scores dropped, in some cases markedly, and, of course, ammo costs went up, further boosted by mandated extra training for some. For whatever reason, I found I shot the 9 mm version of the service pistol that replaced our 1006s much better than I did the .40 version. I didn't shoot the .40 version anywhere near as well as I did the 1006, even with full power ammo.
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And now that they are going to the 6.8 X 51 mm:
Less ammo carried
Less ammo in mag
More expensive
More recoil
Heavier gun*
But better at longer ranges. Question is will we need that capability?
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