Concealed Carry/Mass Shooter Thoughts

[smithra_66]

I would assume a large percentage of us on this forum excercise their right to carry concealed, as do I. Today's
"mass shooter" seems to make their weapon of choice an AR type rifle, not only that many are now wearing tactical
gear, including body armor, among other things. Would I go up against a shooter with an AR and tactical gear
with my 1911, not unless I was standing right next to him/her. I would be heading for cover just like everyone else at the mall, park, diner, nightclub name the place. By the time police arrive they really have no idea who the shooter is,
that makes anyone with a gun in their hand a target for them. Should the shooter come looking for more victims like so many of them do my 1911 may greet them, but by them possibly wearing a vest a shot needs to be precise and delivered quickly. I will always carry, but the above scenario makes me rethink how I may go about things.

Chances are you are far more likely to encounter a common street criminal with a knife or handgun than a "mass shooter" with body armor and an AR.

But you're not likely to encounter either, really.

 

[smithra_66]

Confronting someone in the act of murder is a final folly. Either shoot when you have a clear, certain shot, or stay out of his line of sight and escape. Few could successfully do the former, but nearly all could do the latter.

Declaring any absolutes is folly.

Every situation is unique.

 

[Harmonica]

I have thought about the scenirio....that occurred in Allen Tex mall parking lot....every time I am sitting in my truck/car....waiting as the wife shops. And it brings on the moral dilemma "what is the right thing to do?"

When I am sitting, watching, the people around me...coming and going....I ask my self...what will I do when I see an individual...park....step out ..look around in an odd manner....then reach in and pull out a weapon...be it a long arm or handgun.....what is my moral responsibility.....Part of me says ...draw and confront....other part says..nunya.....I have convinced myself.....if I am close enough to speak....I will confront...and react to their reaction....

...I say, use your common sense--like in the movie Tora Tora Tora

Admiral Halsey: Kim, level with me. I want a clear directive... If I run into a Jap ship, what action do I take?

Admiral Kimmel: Use your common sense.

Admiral Halsey: That's the best damn order I ever had.

[Halsey walks away, then turns around]

Admiral Halsey: If I see so much as a sampan near it, I'll blow it out of the water.

 

[Harmonica]

Hologram sites are a game changer for small gun accuracy. My Sig 365 with Holosun optical sight will make an average handgun shooter look like a pro.

not in a real life situation

 

[Neumann]

I think the first response is to seek cover and concealment. Secondly, you don't want to be "a man with a gun" when the police respond. Left with no choice, any gun you have with you is better than one at home in a closet. Don't forget, it takes practice to shoot well and accurately.

What constitutes "enough gun" to respond in force? The shooter in Allen, TX, with an AR-15, was take down by a cop with a (probably) 9 mm handgun. A shooter in Klamath, OR, committed suicide when threatened by a civilian with a handgun.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

It would ne highly situational. Am I certain of what is going on and who is who? Could I be targeting an LEO doing his/her duty? Who and what is behind my target? Clearly it is SELF DEFENSE first (presumably I know who I am) and community defense if reasonable under the circumstances next.

When the police arrive, I disarm if reasonable under circumstances and hold my permit in the air with other empty hand in the air.

 

[Harmonica]

..the last thing I want to do, is to have to shoot someone--a lot of legal issues there....if you shoot the '''wrong type''' of person, the MSM, etc will try to destroy your life--like they did Darren Wilson --that did the right thing!!
''etc
...but, if someone is murdering people, I would stop them..at least that's what I say at this time

 

[Harry Callihan]

I have a serious problem with the fact that only about 5 to 8 percent of CCW permit holders actually DO have their gun on them when out in public where they might be able to stop a criminal if needed.
CARRY YOUR DAMNED GUNS, people !

That's my Wife... I got her a very nice S&W .38 hammerless airweight loaded up with low recoil Federal 110 Hydrashocks and the thing sits in the drawer at home. She is a pretty good shot with it too.... I constantly tell her to carry!!

 

[ISCS Yoda]

David Crockett famously said, or supposedly said, "Be sure you're right, then go ahead."

Before you start engaging rifle shooters with a handgun you better be doggone right as rain! That's not to say don't do it but, BOY HOWDY!, ........ etc.

Sincere hats off to those of you who are willing to conceal carry full size guns. I'm not.

Well said - and most of the folks in the world of concealed carry would agree!

Chances are you are far more likely to encounter a common street criminal with a knife or handgun than a "mass shooter" with body armor and an AR.

But you're not likely to encounter either, really.

Very true, and I carry a gun because I expect someday to have a common street encounter, the world has gone crazy. A mass shooter.....not so much.....

 

[smoothshooter]

If by "confront" you mean speak or shout to them, that is foolish, IMO.

If he is in the act of shooting others, and you are going to try to stop him, just aim and shoot. No "confront" first and then try to react to a guy already shooting.

I'd have to be very close and behind cover and not in his direct view before I would try to take out an active AR shooter with my handgun.

I do not think he meant actually speaking to the shooter.
I think he meant a normal conversational distance

 

[Old cop]

My perspective from being in a gunfight during my career is nothing will go down the way you thought it would. It's not Hollywood, the adrenalin dump will diminish your skills significantly, and things happen faster than you can think.

 

[pharmer]

Can't say I have been in a mall in quite awhile. Having worked in the mental health field (both inpatient and "community"), I long ago agreed that 1 out of 100 folks walking around is "bug-nuts-crazy." Another 15 years as a High School teacher convinced me we are trying to up that ratio. In a mall of 5,000 people, 50 would eat your brains while quoting Shakespeare. My "threat assessmenter" gets overloaded in crowds so I avoid "congregations." I carry almost all the time since retired and my regular practice demands I seek hard cover and form a new plan. Joe

 

[Inusuit]

I have thought about the scenirio....that occurred in Allen Tex mall parking lot....every time I am sitting in my truck/car....waiting as the wife shops. And it brings on the moral dilemma "what is the right thing to do?"

When I am sitting, watching, the people around me...coming and going....I ask my self...what will I do when I see an individual...park....step out ..look around in an odd manner....then reach in and pull out a weapon...be it a long arm or handgun.....what is my moral responsibility.....Part of me says ...draw and confront....other part says..nunya.....I have convinced myself.....if I am close enough to speak....I will confront...and react to their reaction....

Possibly the best weapon at your disposal in that situation is your vehicle.

 

[Grayfox]

I'm usually carrying any time I leave the house. I've thought about this sort of thing and I believe that, if possible, I have a moral obligation to protect innocent lives.
However, such decisions are made in a split second based on very limited information. Its hard to know what exactly is going on and who the BG really is.
Would I be a hero or would I run away screaming like a little girl? I honestly don't know.

 

[biku324]

Possibly the best weapon at your disposal in that situation is your vehicle.

Or between your ears.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I go get the wife. Everything else is secondary . . .

I have thought about the scenirio....that occurred in Allen Tex mall parking lot....every time I am sitting in my truck/car....waiting as the wife shops. And it brings on the moral dilemma "what is the right thing to do?"

When I am sitting, watching, the people around me...coming and going....I ask my self...what will I do when I see an individual...park....step out ..look around in an odd manner....then reach in and pull out a weapon...be it a long arm or handgun.....what is my moral responsibility.....Part of me says ...draw and confront....other part says..nunya.....I have convinced myself.....if I am close enough to speak....I will confront...and react to their reaction....

 

[five 0]

I go get the wife. Everything else is secondary . . .

This. You carry to defend yourself and your family. I carry under LEOSA and they tell you, you are not a police officer any more. Do not confront be a witness and defend yourself or others if necessary.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I have a serious problem with the fact that only about 5 to 8 percent of CCW permit holders actually DO have their gun on them when out in public where they might be able to stop a criminal if needed.
CARRY YOUR DAMNED GUNS, people !

Spot on!

I also have an issue with LEO Retirees not carrying under LEOSA. The PD I retired from, according to the Rangemasters. Say most retirees do not make it pass the second or third qualification.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I'm well over 50 years old ....and I grew up in not the nicest of places..and have never seen a crime in progress.....
--like Frailer said, the chances of a CC stopping a crime, is very low...does it happen, sure.....
--chances of seeing a crime in progress is very low
----then the chances of being able to use your firearm is lower --depending on the circumstances
ie: --for a robbery, etc would you pull out your firearm if there are many bystanders around? if the robber is near bystanders? etc

Their was crime but you just did not realize it. That is why after ASVAB some people are grunts, some are cooks and some are Military Police.

I have seen and prevented numerous Felonies when I was off duty and or on Vacation as a LEO.

 

[Banjo 10-79]

I hesitate to even respond in this thread because there are so many variables. My default setting is to mind my own business or just be a good witness. In instances of the run of mill domestic going down in a public place or some kind of robbery that's an easy call. Some maniac mowing down innocent woman and children? If I was in a position to take a shot I'd hope I'd muster the courage and resolve to break that shot.

Undoubtedly there are all kinds of considerations legal, moral, tactical and otherwise. I can say for a certainty that when you're down range of actual hostile rifle fire with just a handgun it really sucks. It's an interesting thought exercise regardless. Unfortunately I don't think these sort of events are going away.