The cost to get a vehicle serviced nowadays, Wow!

[Jack Flash]

... the car was ready to go, all except for the cabin air filter (a bargain at only $75.00 installed). I declined. The disbelieving service people promptly re-installed the old filter, so we are now living with compromised air inside the car as we drive.

...

Reviewing my service records, I saw that the dealer had installed a new cabin air filter at one point about 30k miles prior and it was overdue for a new one. Mind you, this was my first vehicle with a CAF so I really knew nothing about them. Trusty YouTube videos showed how easy it is to DIY so I ordered one online and when it arrived I set to work.

First thing I noticed when I removed the glove box was that whoever did the job before had failed to reconnect the little damper piston. Ok, anybody can make a mistake.

But then getting the old filter out was way too hard. I wound up having to tear it to get it out. The problem was that it had been installed sideways! It didn't fit but the guy just jammed it in! (That's the way they go in on a Corolla, but not on a Tacoma, which I have. He must not have known there's a difference.) So much for having the "experts" at the dealership do the job!

Thus I not only saved money, but the job was done right for once.

 

[LVSteve]

Reviewing my service records, I saw that the dealer had installed a new cabin air filter at one point about 30k miles prior and it was overdue for a new one. Mind you, this was my first vehicle with a CAF so I really knew nothing about them. Trusty YouTube videos showed how easy it is to DIY so I ordered one online and when it arrived I set to work.

First thing I noticed when I removed the glove box was that whoever did the job before had failed to reconnect the little damper piston. Ok, anybody can make a mistake.

But then getting the old filter out was way too hard. I wound up having to tear it to get it out. The problem was that it had been installed sideways! It didn't fit but the guy just jammed it in! (That's the way they go in on a Corolla, but not on a Tacoma, which I have. He must not have known there's a difference.) So much for having the "experts" at the dealership do the job!

Thus I not only saved money, but the job was done right for once.

That tech's brother works at a local Mercedes garage. He believes that all M-B 3.0 diesels take the same amount of oil. Nope, the Sprinter van has a much bigger sump. I guess he'd been working on Sprinters a lot when my ML went in. Got the truck back grossly overfilled.

 

[BC38]

Parts prices have got absolutely out of control too - probably part of the problem.
My kid drives a 2002 Honda CRV and the starter has gone bad. Online prices for a REMANUFACTURED starter ranged from $233 - $319!
A reman starter used to be $75-$100 just a very few years ago.
We're going to go ahead and buy the starter and replace it ourselves though, because having it done would probably add another $300-$500 in labor.

 

[venomballistics]

Parts prices have got absolutely out of control too - probably part of the problem.
My kid drives a 2002 Honda CRV and the starter has gone bad. Online prices for a REMANUFACTURED starter ranged from $233 - $319!
A reman starter used to be $75-$100 just a very few years ago.
We're going to go ahead and buy the starter and replace it ourselves though, because having it done would probably add another $300-$500 in labor.

I hate to see the price tag on the starters in the newer start stop equipped rides.
While the system works very well, it HAS to be pummeling the starter at every intersection.

 

[OldYooper]

30 years ago how many us changed the brake fluid. I drove 20 year old cars and trucks back then an NEVER changed the brake fluid. Biggest
ripe-off ever is changing the brake fluid, PERIOD.

 

[Jeff423]

My local mechanic charges $350 for front or rear brakes - pads and rotors. I bought premium parts and did it myself for $200. At my age, the next time he's getting the job.

 

[JJEH]

While the system works very well, it HAS to be pummeling the starter at every intersection.

It does. It's hard work to get it started, and that's also where the engine uses the most fuel. I really don't want to see the manufacturers false mpg claims in order to push that nonsense.

 

[BC38]

It does. It's hard work to get it started, and that's also where the engine uses the most fuel. I really don't want to see the manufacturers false mpg claims in order to push that nonsense.

That is only partially correct.

When first started, until the engine gets warmed up, the car's emissions and fuel delivery system are in "open loop control mode". Pretty much the computer-controlled fuel-injected version of applying the choke on an engine with a carburetor - like your lawnmower. THAT is when a car's engine uses the most fuel. Once it gets warmed up and the emissions system goes into it's "closed-loop control mode", stopping and restarting doesn't use extra fuel, since the computer knows the engine is already warmed up because it is reading the temp sensors and O2 sensors etc. It will then re-start in closed loop mode - just like restarting your lawnmower without using the choke because the engine is warm and the choke isn't needed. No extra fuel used.

I've driven a few of these vehicles with the auto-stop-restart feature and they really do get impressive mileage. I drove a 2021 Malibu as a company car for 9 months and it got 35 around town and 40+ on the highway, and it wasn't some tiny little econobox, it was a pretty decent sized car.
The manufacturers claim that they use a bigger more powerful starter in these systems than what they would use if the vehicle had the same size engine without auto start. Supposedly that is how they offset the additional strain of the increased number of starting cycles. They really haven't been in common use long enough at this point to see whether that claim holds up or not though. One thing for sure - that bigger, more powerful, heavy-duty starter will definitely cost more to replace, if and when it wears out.

 

[JJEH]

That is only partially correct.

When first started, until the engine gets warmed up, the car's emissions and fuel delivery system are in "open loop control mode". Pretty much the computer-controlled fuel-injected version of applying the choke on an engine with a carburetor - like your lawnmower. THAT is when a car's engine uses the most fuel. Once it gets warmed up and the emissions system goes into it's "closed-loop control mode", stopping and restarting doesn't use extra fuel, since the computer knows the engine is already warmed up because it is reading the temp sensors and O2 sensors etc. It will then re-start in closed loop mode - just like restarting your lawnmower without using the choke because the engine is warm and the choke isn't needed. No extra fuel used.

While engine temp plays a role, the engine is still at a standstill. Everything has to get started from zero again, it will take more fuel. Remember pushing a car? Once it rolls it's easier, right?!

I'm willing to bet that, two identical vehicles, idling a motor at a stop sign takes less fuel than start/stop. Tested under real conditions, not in the lab.

Our 2010 Fusion got 30mpg with its 2.5L engine. It was actually a pretty nice car. This over engineered stuff doesn't impress me.

 

[ladder13]

Upon starting our two Acura's that "feature" gets turned off. I don't care for the "bump" when it activates. If I could permanently
turn it off I would, it's so annoying.
The C8 goes to 4 cylinder seamlessly. No option to turn anything off, no need to.

 

[JJEH]

Upon starting our two Acura's that "feature" gets turned off. I don't care for the "bump" when it activates. If I could permanently
turn it off I would, it's so annoying.
The C8 goes to 4 cylinder seamlessly. No option to turn anything off, no need to.

Cylinder deactivation while cruising is different than this start/stop nonsense. Hemi has the deactivation too, from 8 to 4, and you can feel it in our RAM, but it's not too annoying once you get used to that throttle response.

 

[ladder13]

Cylinder deactivation while cruising is different than this start/stop nonsense. Hemi has the deactivation too, from 8 to 4, and you can feel it in our RAM, but it's not too annoying once you get used to that throttle response.

Don't even notice running on 4, power is still there. Apparently it is done to meet EPA dictates. I'd rather the deactivation.

 

[BC38]

While engine temp plays a role, the engine is still at a standstill. Everything has to get started from zero again, it will take more fuel. Remember pushing a car? Once it rolls it's easier, right?!

I'm willing to bet that, two identical vehicles, idling a motor at a stop sign takes less fuel than start/stop. Tested under real conditions, not in the lab.

Our 2010 Fusion got 30mpg with its 2.5L engine. It was actually a pretty nice car. This over engineered stuff doesn't impress me.

Yes, it is at a standstill - which is precisely why it saves fuel. It doesn't take extra fuel to get it restarted - that is accomplished by the ELECTRIC starter. It doesn't start using gas until it STARTS, and as long as it is starting in "closed loop mode", the computer makes it start and run efficiently. Spinning it up to speed with the electric starter DOES NOT USE EXTRA GAS.

Your example of pushing the car is invalid. You have to get the car moving either way - whether it's idling or just restarted so your logic there doesn't hold up.

IF the car shut off immediately - every time you stop - like at a stop sign where you're only stopped a couple of seconds, then maybe there wouldn't be as much savings. But it only shuts down if you're completely stopped for more than 5-10 seconds. If you're sitting there at the light for a minute or more, it will definitely save fuel.

My 2021 Malibu which was considerably larger than your Fusion, and with almost the exact same size engine (2.4liter) got 15%-30% better gas mileage than your Fusion. As I said, 35mpg around town and 40+ on the highway. FOR A BIGGER CAR.

You obviously have never driven one of these vehicles with the auto-stop-restart technology long term. I have, for nine months. You can state whatever you want based on your theories about whether or not it saves gas. I can tell you from experience IT DOES.

It's pretty hard to argue with the numbers, no matter how bad you stubbornly want to deny that the technology works.

Is it annoying? For some people, maybe. For some people the change in throttle response when cylinders deactivate is annoying too - until you get used to it (as you yourself said). The same is true of the auto-stop-restart. You just have to get used to it.

But speaking from experience (as opposed to opinion and theory) I can tell you it does save fuel - in the real world, not just in the lab.

 

[JJEH]

You obviously have never driven one of these vehicles with the auto-stop-restart technology long term.

You are right, I have never owned one or driven long term. However, at one point in my life I was a test driver for Mercedes and we did had to test that start stop system, different cars, different engines and transmissions, but always the same procedure. 8hr shift, 6.5hr driving time. That was back in 2007 I want to say, and starting back then I did tell myself not ever to buy a car with that feature.

Sure, they might have gotten better over time, but just imagine, it's like all the firetrucks in an emergency. They start the engine and go. So these cars roll up to the light, shut off and once it's green start up and you accelerate. Oil pressure, everything is down. While I idle my car, everything turns and is lubricated. Once green I accelerate an already moving engine.

My opinion is that it's easier on the material and the fuel savings are neglectable.

And don't get me wrong, it's great that technology keeps evolving, if we like it or not. What bothers me is that you cannot omit to it anymore when buying a car. It's not an option, it's standard and you'll pay for it, if you want it or not.

 

[Kaarde]

Took my 2011 Silverado (130k miles) in to have checked out. Here are just a few of the things they wanted to do and their insane prices:


Replace front struts and rear shocks: $1800.00 - I bought the parts for $330.00 and did it myself.


Change spark plugs: $582.00 (this one really got me!) - I replaced the plugs AND wires for $75.00!


Change transmission fluid & filter: $527.00


Oil change: $100.00


My theory is with all the car warranty companies now, the repair shops are charging like the medical field charges the health insurance companies.

 

[JJEH]

Change spark plugs: $582.00 (this one really got me!) - I replaced the plugs AND wires for $75.00!

Do you have dual plugs like the Hemi does? It's that damn labor. I always do the plugs myself, just invest in a good set of tools and it will be no problem.

 

[johngalt]

Sounds like it got rat chewed.

Could be, I didn't think to look for a nest. I didn't see any droppings in the garage though.

 

[LVSteve]

30 years ago how many us changed the brake fluid. I drove 20 year old cars and trucks back then an NEVER changed the brake fluid. Biggest
ripe-off ever is changing the brake fluid, PERIOD.

I wonder how many people with that attitude died when the pedal went to the floor on some mountain road they weren't familiar with.

 

[LVSteve]

Upon starting our two Acura's that "feature" gets turned off. I don't care for the "bump" when it activates. If I could permanently
turn it off I would, it's so annoying.

Let's hear it for BMW! My 3-series diesel will only default to the start-stop system in the ECO mode. Even then, it's easy enough to disable. Repeatedly cranking a gas car is bad enough, but a diesel? Not on my watch. Besides, I can average about 40 commuting across town, and on the highway your bladder will be in severe distress before you get through half a tank.

 

[Kinman]

As with all of my good luck with Toyota's I have owned (5) I have zero complaints. I just took the '19 Highlander in for its 20K checkup since new which I know is very low mileage but at any rate they replaced the cabin filter and changed the oil, gave me a good check up on everything and charge me less than $150, I did have a special coupon on the oil change, synthetic oil and filter for $49.00. Something I used to do myself but while its in getting checked over, what they hey...My wife drives a first year Hybrid Camry, its fifteen years old and has had zero issues. I may be singing a different tune when it goes in for its "well baby" check in the coming week, I am continually amazed at its hybrid technology considering its age. I thought for sure we were going to be having battery issues, so far...NONE. She loves the damn thing and can have anything she wants, can't budge her out of it.