.45 acp lead load direction

[rockquarry]

I enjoy load development and have tried many, many powders in the .45 ACP using conventionally lubed and sized cast bullets in weights from 185-230 grains over the last several decades in many guns, mostly 1911s.

Accuracy is most important to me. There are lots of good powders, but the single best has always been Bullseye.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

With cast bullet weights ranging +/- 5-6 grains I would start suspecting a problem in production methods, particularly voids within the bullets as frequently seen when alloy temperatures are not closely controlled. Voids are like air bubbles forming within the metal as it returns from liquid to solid, and voids are both irregular and off-center. This can result in a bullet which fails to stabilize properly, which can drastically affect accuracy.

Another potential cause for failure might be the condition of the sprue after the cut-off is made. The cut should ideally be a clean stoke leaving a smooth surface. In some molds, and in some cases of timing the sprue cut, a rough and uneven surface resulting, sometimes with small chunks of metal torn out. This can also cause uneven weight distribution sufficient to affect stability in flight.

I would try another source for bullets.

My usual target and practice load in .45ACP is the 200-LSWC (Hensley & Gibbs design) with 4.5 Bullseye, sufficient for reliable function in my pistols and shoots to POA at 50 feet. For comparison, the military service load during WW2 has been reported as 230-FMJ with 5.0 Bullseye, so my load (lighter unjacketed bullet, 10% charge reduction) is relatively mild.

Another load I like is the cast 200-RN-HP with 6.2 Unique. The bullet profile is nearly identical to the 230-FMJ ball, but the hollow point pin is .280" diameter and makes a huge cavity that expands very impressively.

 

[rosewood]

With cast bullet weights ranging +/- 5-6 grains I would start suspecting a problem in production methods, particularly voids within the bullets as frequently seen when alloy temperatures are not closely controlled. Voids are like air bubbles forming within the metal as it returns from liquid to solid, and voids are both irregular and off-center.

This is a good point. 5-6 does seem high. On my cast boolits, when I have segregated by weight, seems like 2-3 grains variation was the worst case and I don't exactly spend a lot of time checking being precise. If they are visually good, I usually pass them on the the next phase of production. Even on the heavy 45-70 boolits in the 419 grain range, 2-3 was about the worst.

Rosewood

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

If they are visually good, I usually pass them on the the next phase of production. Even on the heavy 45-70 boolits in the 419 grain range, 2-3 was about the worst.

Rosewood

Casting equipment and technique have everything to do with weight consistency! For my 38-55 low wall I use a single cavity 330g RN mold cast with the old Lyman ladle. After sizing to ,377 and SPG lube all 370 bullets were within 1 grain! That is less than .3% variation. Casting 9mm 124 RN in a Lee 2 cavity with a bottom pour Lee casting pot the variation runs about 2.5 grains, which is about 2% variation but over 80 times faster! A friend has a commercial casting business. His casting machine is about 1000 times faster than a single cavity mold! He only used virgin alloy and has very uniform temperature! His 205 grain RNFP for 45 ACP after size and lube run about 3/4% variation. (That most likely is from all the different casting cavities being used!)

Just for a contrast, I weighed 100 175 grain SMK from 2 years ago, they were within 1/10% variation. 38 years ago I weighed 100 200 grain Hornady Match BTHP They varied by up to 5 grains, 2.5% variation!

Remember, Time = Money!
And: You get what you pay for, if you're lucky!!!

Ivan

 

[Skeet 028]

200 LSWC 5.4-5.5 231. 210 LRNFP 5.6 231. 230 RNL 5.6 231(only good in my 4 inch + Kimber). Another fellow and I did some load developing quite a few years ago and ended up trying a 2400 powder load. It has shot really great in everything I've shot it in...including a Ruger BH Combo with ACP cylinder...however it IS very dirty...so don't recommend it to others. The point of this is to make you try other not so normal loads. I even got good loads with Herco. Never used BE though

 

[rockquarry]

200 LSWC 5.4-5.5 231. 210 LRNFP 5.6 231. 230 RNL 5.6 231(only good in my 4 inch + Kimber). Another fellow and I did some load developing quite a few years ago and ended up trying a 2400 powder load. It has shot really great in everything I've shot it in...including a Ruger BH Combo with ACP cylinder...however it IS very dirty...so don't recommend it to others. The point of this is to make you try other not so normal loads. I even got good loads with Herco. Never used BE though

In one or two older Speer manuals, from the '60s as I recall, there are several .45 Auto Rim loads with cast bullets and #2400 powder. Powder capacity should be the same as the .45 ACP. I've never tried #2400 in either cartridge, but apparently it works.

 

[oldbrownhat]

Not commenting on efficacy of their claims, I just chuckled as it made me remember a product and its advertising from my childhood. Wham-O marketed a hard, compressed rubber ball in the '60's they dubbed the "Super Ball"; haven't been able to find a copy of the exact commercial but I recall one where the pitch went something like " The new SUPER Ball - nothing like it ! Throw it down . . . it bounces up ! Throw it up . . . it bounces down !!! Made from the same material as B52 bomber tires !!!"

Advertising . . . ya gotta love it . . . .

I'm pretty sure I had one of those! Made from Zectron®

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vk7Qm87hUw[/ame]

"Under a dollar wherever toys are sold" (1960) Now $6.99 according to their website.

 

[Forrest r]

From Hi-Tec themselves...

"Properly applied the coating molecularly bonds to the lead, encasing the entire projectile in a protective shell that is self-lubricating. "

About Our Coatings - Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings

Thank you for the link.

The same thing can be said for jacketed or plated bullets also. They are self lubricating when it comes to a bullet and more specifically. What lubricants actually do for a cast bullet.

 

[StrawHat]

I load for a bunch of S&W ACP revolvers. I do not try to find the most accurate load for each one. I do not have that sort of time. Instead, I find one load that is accurate in all of them. With the ACP cartridge, not that difficult to do. I am not familiar enough with the self loaders so what I am about to write may not even apply to them.

I have found that for the 1917 style of rifling, a bullet with a long bearing surface, cast just over throat diameter, is the ticket. My favorite bullet SAECO 453, a 240 grain full wadcutter. I load this over a hardball dose of powder and get great results. Clean holes in paper, tin cans, 5 gallon pails, and game. It is also my edc load.

Next up is the 453423 bullet designed by St Elmer himself! Also cast .001 over throat, loaded over the same dose of powder it extends the useful range of the ACP handgun. When hunting, I keep a moon clip of those for the times I can not stalk close and need to take a long shot.

I know the 453423 can be made to work in a 1911, not sure about the SAECO bullet.

Because you are loading for a revolver and a pistol, you might consider two different loads.

Kevin

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I'm pretty sure I had one of those! Made from Zectron®

Wham-O Super Ball Commercial (1960s) - YouTube

"Under a dollar wherever toys are sold" (1960) Now $6.99 according to their website.

Saturday Night Live did a spoof commercial for "Happy Fun Ball", probably a take-off of the Wham-O toy ball. Made of an unidentified material recovered from the wreckage of a UFO, accelerates unpredictably, capable of serious injuries, seek shelter immediately if Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL!

Like all the SNL spoofs, hilarious parody of commercial advertising.

 

[AJ]

" but I’m all over the place with lead 230 grain either in a 5” 1911 or a M25-2 6.5”."

The OP's question was about cast lead 230 grain bullets. Not anything else, but that is what he got.....everything else. Some good loads were present, but not what he asked for.

I would start with Bullseye powder about 3-3.5 grains, just enough to cycle the slide and see what the grouping is. Then go up a half grain or so to see if the group tightens up. Once you get there, then go up and down 1/10th of a grain to see what the groups do. If you want one load for both guns, you may have to settle for a loading that is not super accurate in both, but just good in both. Have fun getting to that point.

 

[johngalt]

I greatly prefer swaged over most any cast bullet. With the exception of the 185 gr flat base lswc cast by a local guy in Cincinnati when I used to live there. That was my 50 yd bullet.

 

[Rosco Shooter]

Look at the chapter in Ken Waters' book, Pet Loads. You will find pages of load data for the 45 ACP, as well as how they performed with his pistol.

 

[StrawHat]

The OP's question was about cast lead 230 grain bullets. Not anything else, but that is what he got.....everything else. Some good loads were present, but not what he asked for...

AJ,

Totally agree with you, to a point.

I read the OP as “… I can’t get this bullet to work, how can I fix it…”

Sometimes you have to accept that not all bullets will work in all handguns. If the bullet chosen is not performing to your personal standards, try something else. He has had success with jacketed bullets. The 230 grain lrn that he is trying does not perform. Okay, there are at least a dozen different molds that will produce a bullet of that description. Some have pointier noses and others have longer bearing surfaces. Rather than buy samples of all of them, he came here to ask what works. He has received many answers, some will be helpful, some will also not work in his two handguns. The wadcutter bullet I mentioned, I doubt it will work in a stock pistol, but it is a good option for the revolver.

The less options you have the fewer results.

Kevin

 

[zeke]

Look at the chapter in Ken Waters' book, Pet Loads. You will find pages of load data for the 45 ACP, as well as how they performed with his pistol.

If memory serves, this is where i got the 5.5 gns unique under 230 lrn load.

 

[zeke]

The OP's question was about cast lead 230 grain bullets. Not anything else, but that is what he got.....everything else. Some good loads were present, but not what he asked for.

Perhaps you went through the posts too quickly?

 

[johngalt]

IMHO, the most important factor in accuracy is the bullet, not the powder. If your bullet doesn't work, changing powders will only get you so far.

 

[StrawHat]

IMHO, the most important factor in accuracy is the bullet, not the powder. If your bullet doesn't work, changing powders will only get you so far.

Well, if you poll the winners at a Bullseye event, you will probably find two bullets and three different powders make up the majority of competitors. PPC, if the could afford the Federal Match loads, we used it. Otherwise a 148 grain full wadcutter and Bullseye was the recipe.

Kevin

 

[pasound]

Having loaded 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim in the past, I found that the Bullseye and 231 loads mentioned above for similar 200-230gr bullets worked well then, and they should still work now.

 

[smoothshooter]

The weight variation does not matter if they are accurate enough for YOUR use.
Unless you are a super serious bullseye shooter, it sounds like a non-issue to me.
Some guns and loads are not affected by certain variables.