Yes same rules as loaded ammo. Thank goodness it isn't treated as primers alone requiring hazmat.
Question on selling ammo
- Thread starter sshakrr
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Yes same rules as loaded ammo. Thank goodness it isn't treated as primers alone requiring hazmat.
This is correct. The primed brass OR ammo should be packed in partitioned containers - like the original cardboard retail boxes the ammo is sold in, or plastic MTM type cases that people use for their reloads. As previously stated NO LOOSE ROUNDS.
Then the boxes of ammo or primed brass get packed in a larger box with plenty of padding and tape. Put the diamond label on the outside of the box (at least two sides IIRC), and it's good to go.
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I just find it amazing you can ship loaded ammo.and primed brass but not primers without a hazmat certificate. The ammo companies have some pull I guess...
Nah, not really. A primer in brass is pretty hard to set off. A primer in a cardboard sleeve, not nearly so much. Also if a round of ammo or a primed brass should somehow go off it isn't likely to set off the whole box. A bare primer in a sleeve with 99 other primers is much more likely to set off it's neighbors in a chain reaction. Its all about risk - as determined by the DOT when they write the shipping regs.
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I don't know, the primers in a sleeve are in a plastic case and covered by cardboard. I know this is crazy but I do know this nutty buy who actually told a sleeve of Remington primers and sacked it a bunch of times with a hammer. Nothing happened except for everyone around him backing off and yelling at him for doing it lol.
The additional packaging for shipping IMO makes them just as safe as shipping ammo and primed brass. I still think it's the companies who sell ammo online who pushed the ATF in the direction of not needing Hazmat shipping. (which in reality is only paperwork and a sticker)
Opinions will vary.
I know people have always claimed that Federal primer cups are softer, making them easier to fire off, and that is why their packaging is so much bigger than everyone else's with more separation between the individual primers. Not sure if that is accurate, but it does kinda' make sense.
I've also read of people accidentally setting off a primer by crushing it on their press - causing a chain-fire explosion of multiple primers. Never heard of anything like that with ammo.
FWIW, it actually takes a good bit more than just paperwork and a sticker to be a certified haz-mat shipper with UPS. They won't accept haz-mats from just anyone. You have to get certified.
I know, I worked there most of my career. There are also some pretty steep extra fees for shipping haz-mats too - in addition to the paperwork and stickers. That's why you get charged a haz-mat fee - it is actually part of the shipping cost paid by the shipper to UPS. Same with FedEx.
The ATF has nothing to do with haz-mat shipping regs. All haz-mat shipping regs - and in fact ALL shipping regs - are written by the Department Of Transportation - the DOT. I have an old copy of the regs around here somewhere - its a book over an inch thick. And they make changes to the regs pretty much every year, so you have to stay current on them.
That's not to say ammo manufacturers and sellers couldn't have lobbied the DOT to write regs in their favor. Such things have been known to happen. But haz-mat regs and compliance with them isn't as simple as most people assume.
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Well I do remember when the only way to get powder and primers was by Railway Express...if I remember it was a cabal of reloaders etc that got the DOT regs changed...Speer and Hodgdon were involved. I'll talk to Fed Ex about shipping brass. I got all that primed brass by UPS with no markings on the box. All rounds were in bags of 500 or 250. I once had a lady ship me USPS 2000 primers in flat rate boxes...from New Jersey...to Wyoming. After buying all the shooting stuff her husband had I came back to Wy and had sent the primers. With a note that she found them after I left
Oh yeah, I know people break the rules every day.
No biggie - as long as they don't get caught. But if they do then the penalties can be pretty stiff. When you ship UPS, USPS, or FedEx they ask if there are any of the following types of items explosives, flammables, batteries, blah, blah, blah in your package. But people lie about it all the time.
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I seldom shoot factory ammo but somehow wound up with a good bit of it over the years. I've sold it off at decent prices at gun shows in recent years. Too much trouble to ship.
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Nobody ever asks me that at the UPS store.............
Well, FWIW, if the employees at your local UPS Store aren't asking those questions to screen out hazardous material shipping, then they are in violation of their agreement with the UPS Corporation.
UPS Stores are franchise operations and they are NOT authorized by the UPS Corporation to accept shipments of hazardous materials. If they are accepting packages containing hazardous materials, then they are in violation of the terms of their contract with the UPS Corporation.
Which specific UPS Stores are you shipping from that don't ask these very important questions about the contents of the packages they accept? Inquiring minds want to know....
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Do what?
I dunno.
The ones I go into?
Do what?
I dunno.
The ones I go into?
LOL, FWIW, the franchise holder is taking a big risk. If UPS finds they are accepting haz-mats (against UPS's rules for UPS Stores) then they could lose their franchise. UPS doesn't allow the UPS Stores to accept haz-mats because once the package is in UPS's system then UPS is responsible to ensure compliance with the DOT regs and rules.
Since the UPS Stores are franchise operations UPS can't ensure their employees get proper training on the regs or hold the employees accountable. So they don't allow the franchises to accept haz-mats.
At the UPS owned sites (UPS Customer Centers) they can train the employees and hold them accountable. So the UPS Customer Center employees are allowed to accept properly packaged and labeled haz-mats from authorized haz-mat shippers.
In both cases the counter employees accepting the packages are required to ask if there is anything hazardous in the package before they accept it. Of course there's nothing keep people from lying to them. But they are still supposed to ask.
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85win
Member
I just mailed a 22.22 pound box of 45acp ammo at the Wichita hub.
There was a guy in front of me that had a small box. The UPS guy said the cheapest he could ship it for was $170!! I thought, “oh no, I’m really going to get screwed” and began to calculate my losses!
When I got to the front I ended up paying $24.55 to ship it to Indiana. What a relief!
A long time ago I shipped a lot of ammo there, never had a single issue. They always made it as easy.
There was a guy in front of me that had a small box. The UPS guy said the cheapest he could ship it for was $170!! I thought, “oh no, I’m really going to get screwed” and began to calculate my losses!
When I got to the front I ended up paying $24.55 to ship it to Indiana. What a relief!
A long time ago I shipped a lot of ammo there, never had a single issue. They always made it as easy.
My guess would be the small box contained a piece of very expensive jewelry being shipped by Next Day Air. Next Day Air service is pretty expensive, and all packages are automatically insured for $100 value, but to insure a package for thousands of dollars can get pretty expensive.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I like using FedEx better, especially if shipping guns. There are some online stores who recommend using FedEx because too many things like guns and ammo disappear when shipped by UPS. I have no proof but I'm guessing the store would not post that unless true because of slander liability.
I remember back when UPS changed the rules on shipping guns to next day air etc etc. The reason was there were so many stolen guns they had to do something. Identifying the thieves and prosecuting them should have been the answer. But we all know that didn't happen and now UPS is losing more guns again from what I have been told
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Typical, punish those who did nothing wrong, us. Make us pay super high next day air prices instead of doing exactly what you suggested, hold those who did wrong responsible. If there are no consequences the bad behavior will.of course continue.
Well look at the rules.. The next day rules were put in place so supervisors would be RESPONSIBLE for the guns...and they still get stolen? Either the supervisor is not doing the job...is himself the the thief or he's delegating the shipping to the same people that were stealing them before...and we get to pay more to be stolen from...wow
Try collecting insurance from them...then it'll be the shipping or receiving dealers fault...
Try collecting insurance from them...then it'll be the shipping or receiving dealers fault...
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UPS has had a problem with theft. That is why all they now have security cameras all over the place inside their buildings. Although they do catch and prosecute the thieves, they still end up having to pay the claims for the stolen items because they are self-insured. And as we all know guns are expensive items.
Their reason for only allowing Next Day Air shipping is to ensure the package gets special handling and better tracking rather than just being mixed in with everything else. It also means they get handled by a lot fewer employees and move through the system faster, with less opportunity for thieves to get their hands on them.
FedEx still allows shipping long guns through their ground service but they also require Next Day Air shipping for handguns
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