Ten years ago I discovered the LCP. I have since ceased over thinking CC.
The humble J frame
- Thread starter Shibadog
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I have an old stainless LCP. Carried it many times on my bike. Could carry it in a shirt pocket.
OP
By no means advocating a .22 (though if that’s all you can hit with it beats a sharp stick), rather I’m advocating practicing until you actually HIT your target. Yes, practice and developing skills takes time, effort, and $$. Way too many folks IMHO buy a “carry gun”, shoot it a time or two and then never fire it again. THAT is a mistake and in my opinion, a recipe for disaster.
Always loved J-Frames. I rotate 4 of the five I have and always have one in my off hand pocket. I consider it my main gun because at any time and any place, I can have my hand in my pocket, Gun in hand ready to draw. These crazy times I also keep a high cap 9 in my waist around the appendix area.
Got questions?
I carried my 642 as my on-duty BUG for almost 20 years and occasional primary off-duty carry. Now retired I still carry it every now and then but the S&W Shield followed by the Shield plus is my primary CCW. More rounds before reloading, more power per round, comparable size and better accuracy make it an easy choice for me.
Yup, I’ve been carrying both my 442-2 & 340PD (both no-lock) lately. It takes fine motor skills to reload a revolver so I’d rather carry a “New York Reload”. (Two is one and one is none as Clint Smith teaches.)
I do have a Glock 43 and Walther PPS M1 & M2 9mm pistols but the J frames are just easier to carry.
For me, it’s all about personal protection, nothing more.
The .38 Special is a marginal performer especially from a 2” barrel. JHP bullets are very dependent on velocity to expand which generally needs a 4” barrel to get enough speed. The 2” barrel just isn’t long enough to give the velocity for expansion of most JHP bullets. To gain more speed means more recoil.
Another problem with the lack of velocity is adequate penetration especially with those less than perfect shots squarely facing the attacker and directly hitting the CNS or heart.
IMO 158 gr. LSWC has the best proven track record in the snubby. I have a J-Frame 38 Spl. that is my fishing companion. It is Stainless Steel for rust prevention if it gets wet and loaded with two shotshells for protection against snakes and three 158 gr. LSWC for the two legged snakes.
My snubby of choice for defense against two legged attackers is the 22 Magnum. Speer, Hornady and Winchester all make 22 Magnum ammunition especially deigned for best performance from a 2” barrel. The little Taurus gives me eight rounds to five .38 Special along with noticeably less recoil.
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For most of my life I have been a revolver guy as far as CCW goes. Over that time period I have had two Revolvers fail me. Both were brand new. One was a Chief's Special M36 and the other was a 2" RB M 10. The Chief's Special had a broken Stud right after acquiring it, rendering it useless for firing and the M 10 had a defective frame, as per the S&W factory Shop Manager and would randomly cause it to lock up every few rounds.
While I would never say that most Revolvers aren't inherently reliable, more so than auto loaders are, I have experience two personally that contradict the norm.
I own a bunch of Colt 1911's and have been shooting most of them for 43 + years. I kid you not.... I can not remember ever having a FTF, jam or single issue with any of them. I also own a P365 and after 5,500 rounds of different variations of ammo, I have not had any failures either. That said, while I will agree revolvers probably still hold the edge on reliability, today's auto loaders have gotten pretty darn close!! So close in fact that one has a hard time now choosing a revolver over an auto soley based on reliability. There are many pluses to semi autos such as rapid reloads, greater onboard bullet capacity, better sights, ease of shooting, yada, yada, yada, that might also a strong consideration.
Believe me when I say I was a dyed in the wool revolver toter all my adult life and it took quite a bit and many years to covert me to a semi auto "plastic pistol" for CCW! After shooting 100 rounds through my friends Sig P365, I could no longer with a good conscience deceive myself of all the benefits and almost no downsides. To each his own and I am not trying to convert anyone here. Do what ever you are comfortable with, shoot well and feel confident with. Let's hope none of us ever actually needs to use it for SD!
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
I carried a Colt Detective Special as my BUG for most of my career. I prefer it over the "J".
Today if I lived in Mayberry I would likely carry the Colt but I live in a urban area where murder, robberies and rapes do occur. So Glock 19 for me even as a senior. Last week the Donut Shop I go to had an armed robbery. I was talking to another senior about it and he mentioned the day before that, some thugs were robbing people in the Post Office Parking Lot.
Today if I lived in Mayberry I would likely carry the Colt but I live in a urban area where murder, robberies and rapes do occur. So Glock 19 for me even as a senior. Last week the Donut Shop I go to had an armed robbery. I was talking to another senior about it and he mentioned the day before that, some thugs were robbing people in the Post Office Parking Lot.
I've owned one snub-nosed revolver. This is my M49 Bodyguard with an old Bianchi paddle holster. I bought it over 50 years ago used and have carried it as a detective and as a civilian. Its handiness saved my life in LE on several occasions and twice in civilian life. The paddle holster has been excellent with the only modifications being commercial-grade velcro on the paddle and holster body to keep it in place on my gun belts. The Bodyguard now sports Hogue Laser grips which I find first-rate.
I often wear it when I'm on my property as I did this morning while planting trees and bushes. I wear it on my left side as a cross-draw. On the right side, it constantly gets in my way while digging and doing chores. In cooler and cold weather it lives in my outer right jacket pocket (often with a CZ on the left side) in a Mika pocket holster.
It's been a faithful friend, trustworthy travel companion, and savior of my life.
I often wear it when I'm on my property as I did this morning while planting trees and bushes. I wear it on my left side as a cross-draw. On the right side, it constantly gets in my way while digging and doing chores. In cooler and cold weather it lives in my outer right jacket pocket (often with a CZ on the left side) in a Mika pocket holster.
It's been a faithful friend, trustworthy travel companion, and savior of my life.
We're not permitted to discuss religious topics here so please feel free to PM me on that alleged religious quote that seems senseless to me since the characters in question are not in that book.
OTOH, everything you need, nothing you don't, seems applicable here:
OTOH, everything you need, nothing you don't, seems applicable here:
"I’ve now been (legally) carrying a firearm daily for nearly 4 decades. Like lots of folks I’ve spent years searching for the “perfect” CC weapon. In that search I’ve tried “the latest” and greatest plastic fantastic. What’s interesting is that I’ve always wound up coming back “home” to the humble little J frame. It just carry’s “easier” than the newer kids on the block. Five rds of +2 .38 plus another 5 on a strip and I feel quite comfortable. I’m not going out looking for trouble so I don’t feel the need for hi-cap mags and all that goes with them. The humble, old-fashioned J frame just “works”, it shoots well, has decent power, and carries great in a jeans pocket. What more, really, does a civilian need? IMHO, nothing. YMMV"
@Shibadog
Absolutely. Snub revolvers are still relevant. Excellent post by the way!
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heeter3
Member
Nothing to add to that Shibadog ,very well put
I've been carrying similar versions for 49 years and will continue to do so.
I've been carrying similar versions for 49 years and will continue to do so.
Went on the job in 1973 and have been carrying a J frame as a BUG or depending on assignment, my main firearm ever since. Retired, a 442 no lock is still my EDC.
As the department and a academy FA instructor I did intensive training with the J frame and feel quite comfortable with it for SD purposes.
I do own a Sig 365 XL and train quite often with it. And while I will do LEOSA qualifications with it I simply prefer the lighter J frame for concealed carry. The dependability and familiarity factor of a revolver also enters into my decision process. I carry what I know best.
As the department and a academy FA instructor I did intensive training with the J frame and feel quite comfortable with it for SD purposes.
I do own a Sig 365 XL and train quite often with it. And while I will do LEOSA qualifications with it I simply prefer the lighter J frame for concealed carry. The dependability and familiarity factor of a revolver also enters into my decision process. I carry what I know best.
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I don't know what is implied when calling a gun "humble". Maybe it has to do with the shooter being humbled if he is not a skilled handgunner.
Certainly among the most useful of handguns for concealed carry, the J-frame is difficult for most users to shoot well. Sufficient practice will take care of this and will immensely aid in improving handgun shooting skills in general.
If you shoot a J-frame snubnose .38 well enough to hit your intended target at 25 yards (not as hard to do as those who don't practice claim it to be), skillful shooting up closer will be enhanced considerably. Other heavier and/or bulkier guns, like semi-autos and larger revolvers, often considered much easier to shoot well than J-frames, will become much less trouble to shoot well at any handgun range.
Today's gunfighting aspirants, influenced heavily by Internet forums, YouTube, ammo "tests", sedentary warrior theories, and all else that might be unrealistic, veer from the path of simple concealed carry proficiency and self-defense to a police-like role in warding off a band of bank robbers or other heavily armed assailants.
That's certainly the wrong approach especially for those lacking intensive law enforcement training and indoctrination and a less-than-smart role even for those with police training. From strictly an inventory point-of-view, well-equipped police aren't as well-equipped as many of these hobbyists who sadly may find out one day how lacking they are in being properly outfitted, not only with the physical accoutrements but, much more importantly, the right mind that includes instinctive good judgement. Gunfighting schools? Maybe, but can you really benefit from them in a short time frame? Probably not.
Yes, a J-frame .38 is still an excellent choice (but certainly not the only choice) for "real" concealed carry.
Certainly among the most useful of handguns for concealed carry, the J-frame is difficult for most users to shoot well. Sufficient practice will take care of this and will immensely aid in improving handgun shooting skills in general.
If you shoot a J-frame snubnose .38 well enough to hit your intended target at 25 yards (not as hard to do as those who don't practice claim it to be), skillful shooting up closer will be enhanced considerably. Other heavier and/or bulkier guns, like semi-autos and larger revolvers, often considered much easier to shoot well than J-frames, will become much less trouble to shoot well at any handgun range.
Today's gunfighting aspirants, influenced heavily by Internet forums, YouTube, ammo "tests", sedentary warrior theories, and all else that might be unrealistic, veer from the path of simple concealed carry proficiency and self-defense to a police-like role in warding off a band of bank robbers or other heavily armed assailants.
That's certainly the wrong approach especially for those lacking intensive law enforcement training and indoctrination and a less-than-smart role even for those with police training. From strictly an inventory point-of-view, well-equipped police aren't as well-equipped as many of these hobbyists who sadly may find out one day how lacking they are in being properly outfitted, not only with the physical accoutrements but, much more importantly, the right mind that includes instinctive good judgement. Gunfighting schools? Maybe, but can you really benefit from them in a short time frame? Probably not.
Yes, a J-frame .38 is still an excellent choice (but certainly not the only choice) for "real" concealed carry.
OP
By “humble” I simply meant a plain, old fashioned firearm that just plain works. No picatenny rail, no optical sight, no weapons light, no “hi capacity” magazine, no tacticool factors at all. Just a plain, simple reliable weapon. Take the time to master it and it will serve you reliably for decades. No muss, no fuss. Just a plain little old fashioned device that works as designed
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Okay, that's the way I interpreted your post as I commented on it in post #9.
I suppose I read to much into it in my second comment.
Glock 42 in .380 for me. Easier to carry than any other gun I have tried.
smithman 10
US Veteran
642 for me
I carried a 60-7 for years but have switched to a 642-1 for the ease of pocket carry and light weight.
Shot it a couple of days ago with wad cutters and 2 different +P loads at a local indoor range and got good hits at 7 yards except for one round weak hand that missed the paper plate.
For 76 years old that's good enough for me.
KISS is my operating principle in all phases of life. A lightweight J-frame will be what I carry until I stop carrying.
I carried a 60-7 for years but have switched to a 642-1 for the ease of pocket carry and light weight.
Shot it a couple of days ago with wad cutters and 2 different +P loads at a local indoor range and got good hits at 7 yards except for one round weak hand that missed the paper plate.
For 76 years old that's good enough for me.
KISS is my operating principle in all phases of life. A lightweight J-frame will be what I carry until I stop carrying.
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