New Mexico Gun Shop Seizes Polymer80 Pistol For Not Having A Serial Number

[glenwolde]

The original post came from Reddit/polymer80. According to current posts this issue has been resolved to the OP's satisfaction. The store's Facebook page is now blocked, probably by the owner.

"Here's the latest update regarding the whole shooters Den situation.

I've been in contact with the member that this happened to, and he is getting his gun back. He has been in contact with the gun store, and because of our efforts, this situation should be over with relatively soon.

however as in all situations that come from reddit unfortunately, this situation has also attracted the attention of the wrong crowds and there have been some serious and pretty credible threats made to the gun store from some certain groups and extremists . To the point that there have been threats to the owners life and his families lives."

There's more:

Reddit - Dive into anything

 

[Bald1]

Something kinda similar happed to an acquaintance of mine. He took his AR into a shop (I forget why) and the employee told him he'd have to "confiscate" gun because it was not New York compliant. But here's the kicker, for $150 he could make it compliant.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I don't read where the link article says he gave the gun to the shop employee. Maybe a assumption on your part because the owner posted;

"he asked me to show him my firearm, thinking nothing of it I went to my car and came back with it and he TOOK it said he was filing a report with the atf."

Why couldn't they give back while he was still in thr store? He was not giving them the gun for repair, trade, consignment or selling it to them. It appears the employee offered to help the poster to purchase some magazines for it and handled the gun to help to do so (otherwise he could not have seen it had no serial number).

Upon reading the original link, it appears that you are correct. I somehow understood one of the references to indicate that he had left the gun with them and come back. It appears that I was wrong.

 

[CalifEd]

If a plumber pulled up next to you and said he was pulling you over for "reckless driving" and told you he was taking you to jail, would you go? No. Because a plumber doesn't have the authority. And neither does a gunshop employee.

Not relevant to the NM 'taking' case and but picking nits.
If the plumber stopped you for 'reckless driving' he can affect a citizens arrest. A sworn officer is bound to take you in and do the paperwork.
He will have to make the charges and provide the proof of the mis-deed since he is probably the only witness.

 

[Rule3]

But he wouldnt be buying it.

Money as in buying is not the point. It is a "transfer" which doen't have to have money involved.

 

[Breakaway500]

If I built a firearm the last thing I would do is bring it into a retail shop to fit it for mags and holster.
Tough way to learn how convoluted "the law' can be in reality.
I wish him luck but he should have been more careful.

 

[BSA1]

Buying a holster sight unseen such as off of website can be risky if the gun has features such as a light on the front of the frame or a RDS.

 

[BSA1]

"Here's the latest update regarding the whole shooters Den situation.

I've been in contact with the member that this happened to, and he is getting his gun back. He has been in contact with the gun store, and because of our efforts, this situation should be over with relatively soon.

I wonder what the final resolution was?

 

[Sistema1927]

Shooters Den is now off of my list of places to shop.

I would not have left the shop that day without my pistol. I would have called 911 and reported the theft of my weapon before leaving the store.

 

[steelslaver]

The original post came from Reddit/polymer80. According to current posts this issue has been resolved to the OP's satisfaction. The store's Facebook page is now blocked, probably by the owner.

"Here's the latest update regarding the whole shooters Den situation.

I've been in contact with the member that this happened to, and he is getting his gun back. He has been in contact with the gun store, and because of our efforts, this situation should be over with relatively soon.

however as in all situations that come from reddit unfortunately, this situation has also attracted the attention of the wrong crowds and there have been some serious and pretty credible threats made to the gun store from some certain groups and extremists . To the point that there have been threats to the owners life and his families lives."

There's more:

Reddit - Dive into anything

While I do not support threats of violence, I do know

Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes

I do believe the guy could have taken them to civil court and got damages and costs without to much effort.

If I was to make a gun I would put a number on it just in case.

 

[lihpster]

Shooters Den is now off of my list of places to shop.

I would not have left the shop that day without my pistol. I would have called 911 and reported the theft of my weapon before leaving the store.

He called the police. They never came.

 

[pawngal]

The original post came from Reddit/polymer80. According to current posts this issue has been resolved to the OP's satisfaction. The store's Facebook page is now blocked, probably by the owner.

"Here's the latest update regarding the whole shooters Den situation.

I've been in contact with the member that this happened to, and he is getting his gun back. He has been in contact with the gun store, and because of our efforts, this situation should be over with relatively soon.

however as in all situations that come from reddit unfortunately, this situation has also attracted the attention of the wrong crowds and there have been some serious and pretty credible threats made to the gun store from some certain groups and extremists . To the point that there have been threats to the owners life and his families lives."

There's more:

Reddit - Dive into anything

Unfortunately that post was 9 days old. A lot has happened since then.

 

[venomballistics]

While I do not support threats of violence, I do know

Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes

I do believe the guy could have taken them to civil court and got damages and costs without to much effort.

If I was to make a gun I would put a number on it just in case.

It is a bit more complicated than digging out our number punches.
It's best addressed by an FFL in the know about these things as I understand it.
It's not often done in the 3D2A circles

 

[venomballistics]

Buying a holster sight unseen such as off of website can be risky if the gun has features such as a light on the front of the frame or a RDS.

The corollary argument of competence comes into this as well.
If you built it, you better understand it

 

[Sistema1927]

He called the police. They never came.

They would have eventually come when I didn't leave their shop and they were trying to shut up for the day.

 

[steelslaver]

It is a bit more complicated than digging out our number punches.
It's best addressed by an FFL in the know about these things as I understand it.
It's not often done in the 3D2A circles

Ya, per ATF § 479.102
a. You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

1. By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

2. By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

i. The model, if such designation has been made;

ii. The caliber or gauge;

iii. Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

So if I wanted to transfer it, I would need
serial number
caliber
name and address

 

[mtgianni]

I think the gun was never legally in the possession of the gun shop. They requested he bring in the gun to fit a holster. They have a moral duty to verify it is unloaded. They may have a tradition to look for a serial number but no legal mandate to do so until it comes into their possession. They can do all they need to and make a proper sale, without the gun ever leaving the young mans grip.

 

[Doug M.]

I believe that this did in fact turn into a local LE matter as a theft referral. I read that in one of the stories I skimmed about it. I m pretty sure we would charge that, which would be a life changing event for the employee(s) in question.

 

[BSA1]

This young man has the owner of Shooters Den by family jewels.

ATF Regulations require that any firearm they receive that day and keep overnight the FFL must log it by serial number into their records. So how did they log a firearm with no serial number?

The ATF is committed to checking FFL's for 100% compliance and revoking FFL's that are not. So if this young man wanted to he could cause a LOT of problems for Shooters Den if he was to complain to the ATF. I looked up Shooters Den on Facebook and the photos they have posted shows they are well stocked with firearms which would appear to mean they sale, buy or trade for a lot guns. If the ATF comes in looking for and find out the gun was not logged in then it would seem logical they are going to do a deep dive checking his 4473's and firearms log.

If I was the owner I would suck it up and make sure the young man is 110% happy (meaning $$$) when he leaves the store. But the information I have read on other places says the gun was returned and situation is resolved…

Unless the young man complains to the ATF.

 

[Tex1001]

YSo if I wanted to transfer it, I would need
serial number
caliber
name and address

Assuming all of that is absolutely required,
consider the following:

I have 8 rimfire shoulder arms in my safe that were
manufactured prior to GC68,,
none have serial numbers,,
all were purchased after Jan. 2001 from FFLs.

If I try to sell any of these firearms today to a FFL,
or take them for an evaluation, how screwed am I?