SnidelyWhiplash
Member
War in and of itself is an atrocity. The bigger atrocity is that some wars are necessary. Hamas opened with a series of atrocities…they unleashed total war and Israel is returning it.
Elections have consequences
- Thread starter CAJUNLAWYER
- Start date
There were more than a few German Generals who offered to help Patton get to Moscow.
Well said.
As others have commented, don't bet against Israel.
Hamas and their cronies did not expect the response and it is just getting started. I believe Netanyahu when he says they intend to eliminate Hamas.
Patrick Swayze a bouncer in the cult move Roadhouse made a quote "that nobody wins a fight''!
The thing with Israel this time they have been put in the role of the Germans in WWII. It seems Hamas has made it happen that way. Personally as far as I can figure Hamas has hidden themselves in the civilian population just for that reason. Is Israel wrong for fighting this war?? It seems the civilian population of Gaza supports Hamas.How do you hunt them out with out the Collateral damage Hamas causes?
This war is beyond our ability to understand it. Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis act as we would; they never will. Much of the time our solutions to complicated problems don't even work here.
Perhaps true, but if you fail to overwhelmingly return fire, you lose.
Oldengineer
Member
You know folks, even the thinnest pancake has two sides. In 1947 the country of Palestine, which is biblical, was handed over to the Jewish people to form Israel. The Palestinian's want their country back. Hamas is the tip of the spear. A very difficult problem to solve.
We should not forget Israel had Jewish terrorists (the Irgun, Haganah, Lehi, and others) killing civilians in bombings and shootings as well. Bombing of the King David Hotel - British Forces in Palestine
In the King David Hotel bombing, Jewish roadblocks tried to stop British rescuers.
"Troops at Qastina, 40 miles away, rushed to assist in the rescue and had to force their way through Jewish roadblocks and under a hail of stones and abuse." (same reference)
We do NOT think about this as do Israelis or Palestinians.
In the King David Hotel bombing, Jewish roadblocks tried to stop British rescuers.
"Troops at Qastina, 40 miles away, rushed to assist in the rescue and had to force their way through Jewish roadblocks and under a hail of stones and abuse." (same reference)
We do NOT think about this as do Israelis or Palestinians.
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Replies have been deleted. Personal feelings about religion are off limits.
If you can't live with that, take it elsewhere...
If you can't live with that, take it elsewhere...
Exactly the point a friend of mine made to me many years ago when I asked him why his family emmigrated to the US from Palestine. He told me that as far back as his family could remember, at least seven generations and beyond they had farmed the area now known as Palestine, the same land. He said most of the Jews he was forced to deal with that were either taking their land away from them or were soldiers protecting settlers while they were moving onto the land his family had farmed could not trace their family back further than two or three generations of being born in Israel. Most of the Jews could only go back to their grandfather before he was born in Hungary, Poland, Russia, etc. Thats because the Romans booted them out well over a thousand years ago, they refer to this as the great exile. I am well aware of the Holocaust, I've been to Germany and seen the camps with my own eyes and talked to Germans old enough to have lived through it. I have my sympathies for the Jews following the Holocaust. We have all heard of the horrors inflicted on them down through antiquity, but no one with possible exception to our Native American friends seems to have any idea about what it must be like to have land your family has farmed and lived on for countless generations taken away from you in a manner similar to our Manifest Destiny and land grabs such as the Mexican War, this country understands very well how to take from those and call it good. My great, great, great grandfather fought in the Mexican War and was later appointed Lt. Governor of the Territory of New Mexico, he wrote to the family about his strong objections to this as he wrote "land grab." which netted the US the entire Southwest and California.
Makes it pretty tough for Americans to tell the Israelis to back off, instead we fund their activities and support their military providing them with the ability to be an extremely formidable fighting force. A cynical person could say that it is not too much of a stretch of the imagination to see the reason why the US and Great Britian support the Israelis in order to use them as a stabilizing force in the Middle East. Who else has a bigger interest?
I'll take a chance and post this, I mean no harm...I am horrified to see what Hamas has done, but I am equally horrified to see the absolute destruction borne down upon the innocent people who just happen to have little choice where to be but in the direct line of fire of sophisticated weapons systems.
It was not nor should it be easy for people like my friend's family to emigrate to the US in order to escape these horrors, but as was mentioned why is there no understanding that people were there and their lands are being taken away and shouldn't they have a right to fight for what they had in order for people to emigrate and take up residence on land their family farmed for countless generations? I have trouble seeing things in black and white, there is a tremendous amount of grey area that creates more than a bit of confusion for someone that considers themselves fairly broad minded and open to explanation if a question is answered reasonably well. I've never done well with "Thats the way things have always been and therefore thats the way they will always be."
smoothshooter
Member
During WW II, there were more civilian deaths than military.
To the tune of tens of thousands per week in the Asia-Pacific theatre alone in the last year of the war.
smoothshooter
Member
The Palestinians voted Hamas into power in 2004, and the majority still supports them.
Hundreds of millions and billions of dollars have been given to the residents of Gaza. The place has at least 2 miles of beach front real estate. Instead of investing the money in ritzy motels, restaurants, and casinos and making lots of money and increasing the quality of life for the residents, Hamas pockets almost all the money and uses it to buy and make weapons to use against Israel
and the Western democracies.
I personally have no sympathy for the so-called Palestinians or their death-cult leaders.
In regards to your statement about land grabs and native Americans, a little perspective is in order.
Land grabs and forced relocation has been the norm all around the world on all continents. Recorded history and archaeological evidence going back thousands of years support this, whether talking Greek, Roman, Persian, Anglo-Saxon, Chinese, and all the African tribes. It is a fact that before Europeans came to the Western Hemisphere the native tribes fought, killed, kidnapped, made slaves of, tortured, and seized the hunting lands of each other with enthusiasm. IIRC, one of the first things one of the local Indian tribes tried to do was to get the first Jamestown settlers to help them attack and wipe out a rival tribe with their matchlock guns.
The Israelis historically have used most of their resources to build a productive, advanced society (a rare concept in the region), while most of their barbarian Arab neighbors spend theirs on weapons to use against Israel and the Western democracies.
The West has sent untold billions of dollars of "aid" to Gaza and all the other governments in the region over the last 30 years with much of it being stolen by governmental leaders and terrorists.
Just think how different life would be for the residents of Gaza if they had used that money to develop all the Mediterranean beachfront property they have for tourism.
Interesting to note that the only country in that region that has a functioning democracy with Arabs having elected representatives in the government is Israel.
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smoothshooter
Member
Aren't the Jews "Biblical " as well?
Palestine was never a country, but a region, if I recall correctly.
500SNW
Member
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Oldengineer
Member
Not entirely sure who the Jews are. Not a country, not a religion, Who are they? Think about it.
Doug M.
Member
It appears that the civilian deaths are not just the predictable collateral damage that is pretty hard to completely avoid, but a result of conscious decisions by Hamas to mix military equipment and personnel into civilian populations. Shameful, and tragic, but not a result of Israeli choices.
I have a feeling that there is a deeper meaning to the original attack and other conduct by Hamas, because I really can't believe they were stupid enough to think there would not be a staggering response. A surprise attack with hostage taking, rapes, murder of non-combatants and other atrocities seems like a good way to generate a high level of anger.
I have a feeling that there is a deeper meaning to the original attack and other conduct by Hamas, because I really can't believe they were stupid enough to think there would not be a staggering response. A surprise attack with hostage taking, rapes, murder of non-combatants and other atrocities seems like a good way to generate a high level of anger.
SnidelyWhiplash
Member
When one belongs to a culture and/or religion that subscribes to the concept of hatred and that life has little value beyond what you take advantage of or hide behind…this is what you get.
Hamas doesn't care about their own people or they wouldn't behave as they do. If sacrificing your own gets you what you want it's ok by them.
Golda Meier's quote is both accurate and relevant…
"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."
Imagine if we had invaded Afghanistan after 9-11 and not Iraq.
smoothshooter
Member
They know the US and other Western governments will be successful in forcing Israel to cease hostilities before they complete the job.
The efforts have already begun in the current administration.
