HomeSmith Trainwreck #5 "Bullshooter"

[John Patrick]

Fun thread!

I bought three rough Model 65 police trade ins to learn the internals and how everything comes out and goes back in.

And learned the plastic bag trick the hard way trying to remove and reinstall the rebound slide spring without a (second) launch to oblivion.

Looking forward to "Short and sweet!"

Fwiw, bronze wool and a bit of synthetic motor oil plus some elbow grease can do amazing clean ups on blued or SS guns that look like hell.

 

[Shotguncoach]

This has been a fantastic thread so far...<snip>
An excellent yarn you're spinning!

Fun thread!.....<snip>

Thank you both - I appreciate it and I'm glad that I can give something back to a fine group of people.

I own 46 Smith & Wesson revolvers and up until these TrainWreck threads started I had never had a sideplate off of any of them. The insides of a revolver were always something mystical and I was absolutely sure that if I took off the sideplate a bazillion intricate parts would evaporate into the ether. The result was that I've paid my friend Nelson Ford a truly obscene amount of money over the last 30 years.

My first 'smithing experience was at the age of 16 when I took my Dad's 1911 to a gunsmith in a brown paper bag because I couldn't figure out how the sear/disconnector/trigger relationship worked after disassembling it.

Last year Nelson told me that he was thinking about retiring. That scared the bejeesus out of me and I decided then that I needed to learn to do some of this stuff on my own. I'll never be a true artist like he is, but I should be able to handle advanced basic functions. Knowing that he's still there and that if I get in over my head I can show up with a brown paper bag and a bottle of Blanton's makes me feel better about jumping in. I guess that makes Nelson my imaginary emotional support llama. I'll have to tell him that when I call him on New Years Eve....

 

[zeke]

I got to use one of my shiny new tools when it came time to install the rebound slide and it sucked. I got lots of practice using the rebound slide spring tool thingy for taking the rebound slide out as I worked on this one, but for assembly I just can't seem to get it to work. It'll compress the spring but it slips off center and runs into the side of the rebound slide and won't go that extra little bit to hold the spring on the pin. Back to YouTube for another certification.

There is a video out there from an old gentleman who says he worked for Smith and Wesson for his entire career and only used one tool for assembling revolvers: A screwdriver that he ground himself. Hmmmm....one of the toolboxes that I bought at an estate auction had a screwdriver in it that looked quite a bit like that one....maybe? YES! The previous owner of the toolbox must have run into the same problem because there was a screwdriver ground exactly the same way as the one used by the gentleman in the video, and it worked perfectly for setting the rebound slide in place. The special screwdriver is ground with a very long taper on the sides and will fit inside the end of the rebound spring, allowing it to be compressed and set in place on the pin. [/I]

Excellent thread! Went and going through similar, although not to the same extent. Have taken notice the oem rebound springs are ground flat on the ends, and the special tool works better on them. Then noticed the special tool tips were rounded, which didn't play well with the aftermarket springs. Flattened the ends of the tips, and deepened the notch. Better, but still pita and will try the ground screwdriver tip, which is sincerely appreciated!

 

[Protocall_Design]

A small Phillips screwdriver or hex tip works well, also.

 

[JohnHL]

Lotsa fun.

Enjoying your journey and description.

John

 

[BC38]

I wouldn't give more than $3.00 for that..........Then I would use it as a trotline anchor.......I don't rescue other people junk and mistakes.

My, but aren't you just a little ray of sunshine. You couldn't just click the "back" button instead of dumping on someone else's thread? Not even on Christmas Eve? WOW!

Great thread Shotguncoach. I think it is really cool that you are fixing old guns to teach yourself basic gunsmithing skills - and sharing your experience with the rest of us. Even though there are some people who will never "get" it.

I've done a little bit of the same and it is a really cool feeling to turn a former basket-case back into a working firearm!

Great job, keep it up. Your threads so far are very fun to read. Don't let the negative-Nancies get ya' down.

 

[SS336]

I too am enjoying this thread. I have made all these mistakes and a few more.
It is a very enjoyable to be able to fix these things and have fun with them. When the revolver is done, and works well, it is a big feeling of accomplishment.
With the price of good used S&Ws this is more topical every month.
Can't wait for next installment

 

[mrchick]

I am enjoying this thread as well. Thanks for sharing.

 

[John Patrick]

Thank you both - I appreciate it and I'm glad that I can give something back to a fine group of people.

I own 46 Smith & Wesson revolvers and up until these TrainWreck threads started I had never had a sideplate off of any of them. The insides of a revolver were always something mystical and I was absolutely sure that if I took off the sideplate a bazillion intricate parts would evaporate into the ether. The result was that I've paid my friend Nelson Ford a truly obscene amount of money over the last 30 years.

My first 'smithing experience was at the age of 16 when I took my Dad's 1911 to a gunsmith in a brown paper bag because I couldn't figure out how the sear/disconnector/trigger relationship worked after disassembling it.

Last year Nelson told me that he was thinking about retiring. That scared the bejeesus out of me and I decided then that I needed to learn to do some of this stuff on my own. I'll never be a true artist like he is, but I should be able to handle advanced basic functions. Knowing that he's still there and that if I get in over my head I can show up with a brown paper bag and a bottle of Blanton's makes me feel better about jumping in. I guess that makes Nelson my imaginary emotional support llama. I'll have to tell him that when I call him on New Years Eve....

I remember sign in a gun shop that read something like:

Strip, Clean and Reassemble- $45.00
You Strip, we assemble- $60.00

I laughed hard at that!

 

[steelslaver]

I think it is really smart to do stuff like this. Look at everything you learned and the value of that in itself. It is harder and harder and more expensive to find actual revolver smiths.

Unless it is really damaged there is no reason a frame can not become an excellent shooter. If fact no reason the can't be made better than a factory gun. It isn't all about collecting or collector value.

I would like to find a Bomar rib set up. I want to make a 45 acp PPC Gun

When finished your "boat anchor" may well out shoot some guys pristine factory gun that he got with the box and tools.

I keep thinking of the 2 Registered Magnums that have shown up on the forum that have paperwork showing they were sent back to the factory for timing issues shortly after purchase, that and the reports of poor results from sending guns back to the factory for repairs.

Yes, there is some precision involved, but actually they are just not that complicated to work on.

 

[John Patrick]

I am getting the impression you're more "adventurous" than I've been. Maybe I need to find more of a "train wreck!" I would like to learn how to fix timing issues when one or two cylinders are out of time, especially late.

Fwiw, while waiting for a job interview at a gun shop I asked one of the counter guys if I could look at the two 3" 686s they had (maybe four or five revolvers out of a couple hundred guns on display.) Both were taken in trade. One had perfect timing, the other had two cylinders which were late, and so didn't lock up before the hammer reached full cock.

The guy asked what I was doing cycling the second revolver, which had the perfect timing. I told him and then showed him how to check the timing and showed him the difference between the two revolvers. He had never heard of timing, how to check it or how to fix it.

I'm sure the out of time revolver left the factory like that.

Also, as little as I know about revolvers compared to many of our members here, I'm the "revolver expert" at both shops I work at, because nobody else knows anything at all.

 

[BC38]

I think it is really smart to do stuff like this. Look at everything you learned and the value of that in itself. It is harder and harder and more expensive to find actual revolver smiths.

Unless it is really damaged there is no reason a frame can not become an excellent shooter. If fact no reason the can't be made better than a factory gun. It isn't all about collecting or collector value.

I would like to find a Bomar rib set up. I want to make a 45 acp PPC Gun

When finished your "boat anchor" may well out shoot some guys pristine factory gun that he got with the box and tools.

I keep thinking of the 2 Registered Magnums that have shown up on the forum that have paperwork showing they were sent back to the factory for timing issues shortly after purchase, that and the reports of poor results from sending guns back to the factory for repairs.

Yes, there is some precision involved, but actually they are just not that complicated to work on.

Absolutely! These old revolvers are mechanical things built on designs that are at least 100 years old.

They aren't aren't so complicated that today's young folks should be so completely baffled by how they work - even though they aren't digital.

 

[steelslaver]

Absolutely! These old revolvers are mechanical things built on designs that are at least 100 years old.

They aren't aren't so complicated that today's young folks should be so completely baffled by how they work - even though they aren't digital.

What S&W revolver actions are is extremely clever. The way the trigger trips the cylinder stop, the rebound slide both resetting the trigger and acting as a hammer block, how the trigger engages the double action sear to start the hammer and then gets transferred to the hammer itself and also the trigger moving the hand up to rotate the cylinder. How the cylinder bolt releases the cylinder via center pin both front and rear and blocks the hammer when not home.

Most of the real precision you don't have to mess with. The trigger and hammer studs, the holes in the trigger for the stud, hand and strut. Mostly just the DA sear engagement. A little shine on the sears and sliding surfaces. You can mess with the springs which are not precision nor expensive. Hands and stops are not expensive either.

 

[Shotguncoach]

@John Patrick - one of the trainwrecks that I have (project "warhorse") is out of time by varying amounts on every chamber. I'm sure that they won't all respond the same way to a single fix and some individual work will be required. We'll get there together!

 

[zeek]

I enjoy this thread very much; thank you for posting this information. where does one find a "parts kit" or was the parts from your stash?

 

[Sevens]

You can definitely find them on Gunbroker — usually a company that is in charge of de-milling seized guns. They disassemble as much as they can, collect all the parts, then torch or cut the frame so it is "legally destroyed."

They sometimes appear at gun shows, but Gunbroker has them often. And as they are legally NOT a firearm, you don't need the assistance of an FFL to receive them.

 

[John Patrick]

Individual parts can be sourced from Numrich.

Gun Parts & Firearm Accessories | Numrich Gun Parts

(Like a replacement rebound slide spring after you've launched one into oblivion.)

 

[Shotguncoach]

I've been getting my kits here:

EveryGunPart.com Smith & Wesson

They had a really good sale around Thanksgiving and I bought 10 kits.

Edit: If a 4" 624 kit shows up, I call dibs!

 

[cmansguns]

Rebound slide spring tool

The OP in post #4 mentions that his shiny new tool didn't work for reinstalling the rebound slide spring and he reverted to a home-made tool made from a screwdriver.

I too had to learn this stuff the hard way, but after seeing "Larry" (on Midway You Tube) also "slip" with his homemade screwdriver tool, I ordered a shiny new tool from Gunsmither and lo and behold...the tool works perfect BOTH ways disassemble and reinstall). Comes color coded red and black tips, with decent instructions, even a sketch on the backside.

The "fork" works just great, no slip, no "gotcha", both eyes still intact.

Worth the money? I think so and I am no gunsmith, just a curious guy and a tool hound anyway so it has sure made my life easier around S& W revo's.

 

[handejector]

I like your style. You have a nice, methodical way of teaching yourself, and you're doing well.
One slight correction in terminology-

It was a roll of the dice....it could be that someone upgraded and took their "good" trigger with them, or it could be that the pins were all broken off inside and I had just purchased a pile of parts.

Here's what it looked like inside. I've got pins!

Those little poles are more correctly called "studs".
Since you're becoming an ex-spurt, ya wanna get the words right.
I disassembled my first S&W ( a 5 screw 4" Pre 29) over 59 years ago. That rebound slide was a learning experience for sure. I finally figured out how to do it with a small tapered screwdriver, and I've been doing it that way ever since. No problem. I did add the rebound slide tool to a Brownell's order years ago, but I find it cumbersome, slow, and often annoying.
I keep meaning to order this one that cmans posted, but I keep forgettin....