What's your opinion? 43c- UPDATE

[Lobster Picnic]

I'm glad it got straightened out. I would still run quality ammo in it, as the alloy j-frame rimfires seems to have more issues with light strikes than the steel ones.

I have a modern stainless Model 63 which eats anything. I also have the 351c in .22 WMR and it has been 100% reliable. It has a seriously heavy trigger which I didn't mess with and I'm using only Speer Gold Dots in it.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I plan on buying one in 2024 and running Federal Punch through it because that is what has worked for the guy I know who has one. I know it must be frustrating to spend that money and then have to find an ammo that works with it, but I think the design is flawless for carry. I hope in the end you find what works for you and really enjoy it. If not, please reach out to me, maybe we can arrange something

 

[Data]

I own a 43c, something I'd wanted for awhile, but never got around to buying. It's a great little gun to throw in the pocket while I'm mowing, walking around the yard in shorts, etc...

Problem is, it's not reliable. I get one or two light strikes per cylinder. I've tried 9 different types and brands of ammo. No difference.

Since it's not exactly a life-saving device, I've been pretty patient with it. I put around 6-700 rds through it before I decided to send it back to S&W, with a detailed note describing the problem. This is the first firearm I've ever returned.

After around 9 weeks, the FedEx truck comes up the drive. I was pumped! Note in the box said "Repaired yoke."

Loaded it up, and headed up to my range. Bang! Click. Click. Shot through the rest of the cylinder OK. 4 more types of ammo, same thing. Out of eight cylinders, I did get through one with all eight rounds, which is a record for that piece.

I emailed CS again, and they shipped me another return label. It's just disappointing to have to wait 8-10 more weeks to get it back, and not know what I'll be getting.

What's your opinion? Am I expecting too much? Seems like for the price of that revolver new, it should be able to shoot just about anything.
And what would you do if it doesn't improve after the 2nd trip back? I wouldn't sell it to someone knowing of the issue, unless they were OK with it. And in that case I would be taking a beating on the resale.

Anyone else run into this? What was the outcome?

I think your expectations are reasonable as well as feeling annoyed that S&W repair dept. did not resolve the issue. It seems to me, that they did not follow through with the repair due to oversight. However, I am guessing that it will get the proper repair that it deserves this time around.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I bought one, cleaned it before first range trip today and while I had some FTF it was few and far between. Not saying OP isn't having legitimate issues but maybe it's ammo related. The Aguila hollows I shot had 0 FTF, the gun seems to prefer hotter loads and really struggled with the Aguila Colibri which is a quiet round with much less power. Although to be fair with the CCI quiets it had only 1 FTF.

 

[Data]

I bought one, cleaned it before first range trip today and while I had some FTF it was few and far between. Not saying OP isn't having legitimate issues but maybe it's ammo related. The Aguila hollows I shot had 0 FTF, the gun seems to prefer hotter loads and really struggled with the Aguila Colibri which is a quiet round with much less power. Although to be fair with the CCI quiets it had only 1 FTF.

Nice photo!

 

[Data]

As for the 43C, I have one. I initially bought it as an understudy in relation to my big boy j frame models. It has proven itself to me as a reliable carry gun. I never shot cheap or crappy ammo through it. I have only shot the Federal Punch and CCI Stinger loads. Albeit, they are expensive loads, i.e. nickel casings and probably better quality control... it's worth it to me the extra dollars paid and these are the ones I like to stock up with. They have been super reliable through my platform. No reason to change, as it's been working relialble 100 percent of the time to this day.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

As for the 43C, I have one. I initially bought it as an understudy in relation to my big boy j frame models. It has proven itself to me as a reliable carry gun. I never shot cheap or crappy ammo through it. I have only shot the Federal Punch and CCI Stinger loads. Albeit, they are expensive loads, i.e. nickel casings and probably better quality control... it's worth it to me the extra dollars paid and these are the ones I like to stock up with. They have been super reliable through my platform. No reason to change, as it's been working relialble 100 percent of the time to this day.

I ordered 1,000 punch because to me 22 defensive ammo isn't that much compared to 357 or other rounds I've shot. I actually shoot my defensive ammo as range ammo because it's worth the extra 10 cents or so to me to have the experience with what I carry which will be punch because I know they designed it for short barrel guns like the 43c.

The nickel casings are nice to be sure, but the main reason I got them is their performance In short barrel platforms like the 43C I actually had a question for you data, so I am glad you are here.

Do you think the performance in short barrels is advertisment or real based on your experience? If the performance is real, would that be due to a faster burning powder or how would they achieve that? Also is it possible to test for the rate of burn in a cartridge in terms of powder?

 

[Dump1567]

Not Data, but I base my use of it on the actual Gel tests I've seen on YouTube.

 

[Mark 40]

Do you think the performance in short barrels is advertisment or real based on your experience?

Real, based on gel testing we did with a 1.875" barrel LCR.

 

[PeterJ]

My .02. Sent my 43c back to S&W the first time and they repaired the yoke and upon return, light strikes were still there with Mini Mags but Stingers seemed quite reliable. Shot it for about a year and little by little, even the Stingers started to light strike. I took it to a local gunsmith and he charged me 60 bucks to work on the mainspring and firing pin and didn't really help a thing. Sent it back to S&W stressing about the problem which they promised to take special care of, this time. Got the gun back in about 4 weeks with the yoke repaired, firing pin replaced and forcing cone cut. What ? Results are encouraging so far as it has been 99 percent reliable with any ammo I have run through it. Hopefully it will continue to work properly as I really like the gun and carry it just about every day, switching off occasionally with my CSX.

 

[Data]

I ordered 1,000 punch because to me 22 defensive ammo isn't that much compared to 357 or other rounds I've shot. I actually shoot my defensive ammo as range ammo because it's worth the extra 10 cents or so to me to have the experience with what I carry which will be punch because I know they designed it for short barrel guns like the 43c.

The nickel casings are nice to be sure, but the main reason I got them is their performance In short barrel platforms like the 43C I actually had a question for you data, so I am glad you are here.

Do you think the performance in short barrels is advertisment or real based on your experience? If the performance is real, would that be due to a faster burning powder or how would they achieve that? Also is it possible to test for the rate of burn in a cartridge in terms of powder?

Do you think the performance in short barrels is advertisment or real based on your experience?

In regards to short barrels ...

Sometimes if not all, the velocity is slower than advertise, and that would hold true to energy as well. Bullet expansion, highly depends on velocity.

Advertisement and personal experience more often than not conflict with each other via random sampling. Based on research and my own findings.

As for advertisement of ammunition I see it as a general idea of what to expect and how it will perform via ballistic gel and nothing more. I don't never take a manufacturer(s) data as full gospel. In other words, I use it as a general guideline and that's about it. Based on what I've seen most of the time... ammunition fails to perform as advertised, but sometimes exceeds the expected results. Knowing this, I look at other aspects for choosing a specific load. ie. ignition reliability, accuracy, casing type (prefer nickel for semi-autos and revolvers), reputation with LE, and so on.

If the performance is real, would that be due to a faster burning powder or how would they achieve that?

I am somewhat familiar with handloading, but I am not a hand loader expert of self defense ammunition and for good reasons not mentioned here. As for the mentioning of a faster burn rate, there is a fair amount of complexity and explanation required. I think that it's a great question you ask, but I think there is a ton of expertise (experienced hand-loaders) on this forum that might have a precise answer to your question.

In the case of self defense ammunition ... it all boils down to firearm reliability, ignition consistency, and shot placement ... regardless of what over-hyped advertisement wants us to believe.

That's all I have, but that is my opinion and two cents worth.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

Do you think the performance in short barrels is advertisment or real based on your experience?

In regards to short barrels ...

Sometimes if not all, the velocity is slower than advertise, and that would hold true to energy as well. Bullet expansion, highly depends on velocity.

Advertisement and personal experience more often than not conflict with each other via random sampling. Based on research and my own findings.

As for advertisement of ammunition I see it as a general idea of what to expect and how it will perform via ballistic gel and nothing more. I don't never take a manufacturer(s) data as full gospel. In other words, I use it as a general guideline and that's about it. Based on what I've seen most of the time... ammunition fails to perform as advertised, but sometimes exceeds the expected results. Knowing this, I look at other aspects for choosing a specific load. ie. ignition reliability, accuracy, casing type (prefer nickel for semi-autos and revolvers), reputation with LE, and so on.

If the performance is real, would that be due to a faster burning powder or how would they achieve that?

I am somewhat familiar with handloading, but I am not a hand loader expert of self defense ammunition and for good reasons not mentioned here. As for the mentioning of a faster burn rate, there is a fair amount of complexity and explanation required. I think that it's a great question you ask, but I think there is a ton of expertise (experienced hand-loaders) on this forum that might have a precise answer to your question.

In the case of self defense ammunition ... it all boils down to firearm reliability, ignition consistency, and shot placement ... regardless of what over-hyped advertisement wants us to believe.

That's all I have, but that is my opinion and two cents worth.

A well-reasoned explanation to me, thanks Data. I agree that taking advertised velocity at face value would be naive at best. I wish I had a chronograph to test it myself, however, it seems to perform well enough in videos where I have seen it tested for velocity.

As you mentioned, gel tests tell us a lot as well and from what I have seen it consistently performs well in gel.

I guess when it arrives tomorrow I can go test it myself for reliability and penetration. I may not have gel, but I can fill three milk jugs with water and see how far it gets. Except in this case I am actually hoping it gets through all three rather than my usual hope that it stops in the 3rd with more powerful rounds I have tested. I will also be recording how many failures to fire I have in these thousand rounds to get a good sample size.

 

[Data]

A well-reasoned explanation to me, thanks Data. I agree that taking advertised velocity at face value would be naive at best. I wish I had a chronograph to test it myself, however, it seems to perform well enough in videos where I have seen it tested for velocity.

As you mentioned, gel tests tell us a lot as well and from what I have seen it consistently performs well in gel.

I guess when it arrives tomorrow I can go test it myself for reliability and penetration. I may not have gel, but I can fill three milk jugs with water and see how far it gets. Except in this case I am actually hoping it gets through all three rather than my usual hope that it stops in the 3rd with more powerful rounds I have tested. I will also be recording how many failures to fire I have in these thousand rounds to get a good sample size.

I hope your 43C works out to your satisfaction in your upcoming range session for reliability and function check, as well as ballistic curiosity (jug test). I think it's important to keep in mind that the .22LR is always going to be subject to failure to fires every now and then. I do keep this mind, even though my particular 43C has been super reliable. Certainly, if I do get a failure to fire(s), I am not going to discard it. The beauty of it, comes to pulling that trigger again to ensure the next round will ignite. That's one of many reasons why I dig the revolver.

 

[petepeterson]

My .02. Sent my 43c back to S&W the first time and they repaired the yoke and upon return, light strikes were still there with Mini Mags but Stingers seemed quite reliable. Shot it for about a year and little by little, even the Stingers started to light strike. I took it to a local gunsmith and he charged me 60 bucks to work on the mainspring and firing pin and didn't really help a thing. Sent it back to S&W stressing about the problem which they promised to take special care of, this time. Got the gun back in about 4 weeks with the yoke repaired, firing pin replaced and forcing cone cut. What ? Results are encouraging so far as it has been 99 percent reliable with any ammo I have run through it. Hopefully it will continue to work properly as I really like the gun and carry it just about every day, switching off occasionally with my CSX.

That sounds remarkably similar to my story, with an added trip thrown in.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

That sounds remarkably similar to my story, with an added trip thrown in.

Oh look OP is back sorry for hijacking the thread although to be fair I did try to buy your 43c before buying my own.

It would seem the 43c is a case of hoping you don't get a lemon . The guy I know who has one got a second one that had issues but after S&W fixed it the issue he had was resolved.

I seem to be lucky in that my particular 43c has been flawless. I'll admit I agree with OP though for the price to go through what you did is absurd. Really should be better QC for a gun in that price point.

 

[Gater]

I have been considering purchasing a M43c. From reading about some of the problems with it and the price tag. I'm not so sure about about purchasing one. My local gun shop has a used one for $589. I wonder if it was traded in because of it malfunctioning. It's a **** shoot if I purchased it. I was looking a pocket .22LR. I have seen the Beretta 21a have problems with the triggers breaking. I would like a M43c over the Beretta 21a. I have a Ruger 22/45 S&W M41 and a S&W M617 that is a tack driver. Decisions, Decisions!

 

[BabaBlueJay]

The fact it was traded would be concerning to me, as much as I like mine I know directly of lemons. Fortunately S&W stands behind these and the one confirmed lemon a guy I know had with his second one sent it back and it worked fine after that. If you are tight on time the extra cost of a new one might be worth it. Though even then, this lemon was new. I am lucky mine has been absolutely stellar, but it is concerning that we can point to examples that have not been such as OP or the guy I know.

 

[44 mag]

My brand new 43c is currently at S&W for repair. It arrived with a cylinder that will not lock close, plunger pin sticks out from under the barrel and stiff and to release the cylinder you need to push rearward similar to Colts revolvers . The gun will be returned to the online dealer for refund or exchange once I get it back . The dealer already agreed View attachment 664527

 

[Gater]

S&W use to have good quality control. The retail price on the M43c is $759 ruffly. By the time you pay a dealer transfer fee and tax is over $800. S&W must have the new hires building the M43c for new hire training.

 

[Gater]

I found a used M43c at a local gun shop for $600. I checked with another gun shop they have a new in the box for $650 +tax+ background check = $687. S&W has a $50 rebait.