Ok, Lucy ‘splain this to me

[Echo40]

We have plenty of stupid knife laws created out of fear, just like stupid gun laws.

I am almost never without a pocketknife and most people find that odd. I am frequently asked, "Why do you need to carry a knife?"

I meant among other knife owners/carriers.

How often do you see folks arguing over whose knife is safer or less likely to accidentally cut the user?

Among knife enthusiasts, it's pretty well accepted that blades are sharp and will cut you if you're not careful, and nobody will argue that knives need safeties to prevent them from accidentally cutting things. Knife safety is the sole responsibility of the user.

If someone drops a gun and it goes off, then everyone starts criticizing it because it isn't drop-safe and the manufacturer has to recall it to fix the supposed issue, but if someone drops a knife and it gets imbedded in the floor at the tip, folks simply accept the simple fact that such is what occurs if one drops a knife.

I'm saying that folks ought to be more accepting of the fact that if handled carelessly then it's liable to go off, just as folks readily accept that a knife will cut under the same circumstances.

I dunno about you, but none of my knives have any form of safety, yet I still have all of my fingers and have never been seriously injured by any of them. For the record, I've carried a knife since I was just a boy.

 

[Rotorhead1026]

Funny, the older I get the worse the arthritis in my hand, the more my cursive looks like I went to medical school.

Heck, I started out that way.

 

[Durango Slim]

Whenever someone buys a firearm they need , at a minimum, a crash course in how THAT weapon works.

How are you going to implement that?

Licensing? Government regulations?

If I sell a gun to you, how am I going to make sure you know how it works? What if I give erroneous information?

If I sell a car to someone, is it my responsibility to ensure they know how to operate it correctly?

There are more guns in America than cars, yet there are more deaths annually automobiles than firearms.

 

[steelslaver]

How are you going to implement that?

Licensing? Government regulations?

If I sell a gun to you, how am I going to make sure you know how it works? What if I give erroneous information?

If I sell a car to someone, is it my responsibility to ensure they know how to operate it correctly?

There are more guns in America than cars, yet there are more deaths annually automobiles than firearms.

Nobody said it should be a legal requirement, that it was the sellers responsibility or anything of the kind.

Simply that someone who purchases a gun needs to study and understand how it operates. Which is 100% true.

A video or hey how about those handy dandy instruction manuals that come with all new guns?

How about this? It i the owner responsibly. If I buy a gun and fail to learn how it operates and harm someone with it I am legally (and morally) responsible, just like if I buy a car and run over someone because I didn't know how to use the brakes or steer it. Most of us needed to study pass a written and some sort of practical test to legally drive. So, the car analogy kinda falls flat especially as the basic controls like accelerator brakes and steering wheel are very similar in almost everyone of them

 

[Yaworski]

I dunno about you, but none of my knives have any form of safety,

I have an assisted opening SOG that has a safety lock. It was free, what can I say?

 

[AJ]

Nobody said it should be a legal requirement, that it was the sellers responsibility or anything of the kind.

Simply that someone who purchases a gun needs to study and understand how it operates. Which is 100% true.

A video or hey how about those handy dandy instruction manuals that come with all new guns?

How about this? It i the owner responsibly. If I buy a gun and fail to learn how it operates and harm someone with it I am legally (and morally) responsible, just like if I buy a car and run over someone because I didn't know how to use the brakes or steer it. Most of us needed to study pass a written and some sort of practical test to legally drive. So, the car analogy kinda falls flat especially as the basic controls like accelerator brakes and steering wheel are very similar in almost everyone of them

Responsible? The American Public? They have not been responsible for anything for years. Handling a firearm safely? Driving a car safely? Hate to see what things are like in another 50 years........ Or do you just send all the Bozo drivers to Florida?

 

[Durango Slim]

Nobody said it should be a legal requirement, that it was the sellers responsibility or anything of the kind.

Simply that someone who purchases a gun needs to study and understand how it operates. Which is 100% true.

A video or hey how about those handy dandy instruction manuals that come with all new guns?

How about this? It i the owner responsibly. If I buy a gun and fail to learn how it operates and harm someone with it I am legally (and morally) responsible, just like if I buy a car and run over someone because I didn't know how to use the brakes or steer it. Most of us needed to study pass a written and some sort of practical test to legally drive. So, the car analogy kinda falls flat especially as the basic controls like accelerator brakes and steering wheel are very similar in almost everyone of them

He said they "need a course on operation".

I asked how that could be done without government intrusion.

You say, "someone who purchases a gun needs to study and understand how it operates..."

How that that be done practically?

You say "If I buy a gun and fail to learn how it operates and harm someone with it I am legally (and morally) responsible..."

You are legally responsible regardless of your understanding of how the firearm works.

Citing the legality of operating a motor vehicle after the proper training is specious since you do not need a license to drive a car.

Nor do you need one, in many states, to own a firearm.

Are you advocating training and licensing to purchase a gun?

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Guys go in looking for ammo, don't know if they have a 357 sig or magnum. 38S&W, Super or 38 special, 303 Savage or British, which 9mm, which 300, which 7mm, that list is endless,

Then we have the AR14, my 300 mag shoots flat to 500 yards, the guys who crank out a round after emptying their gun by only removing the magazine, 3" shells fit in my old shotgun just fine (2 3/4" chambered). It was dead on when I put it away 3 seasons ago, no need waste ammo to sight it in again. I keep a gun in my purse (along with 25# of other stuff)

My mother in law doesn't believe in permit less carry, yet, believes she is just fine carrying a gun, because she shot some when she was younger. Yet, she has a very limited knowledge of gun laws. "I don't care what you say, I won't go to jail if I get caught with one in my car in California"

Being a known "gun guy" in a "gun state" I have had some interesting conversations and heard some even more interesting statements. I can only imagine how interesting working a gun counter could be.

Unfortunately there are a lot of dead people due to gun ignorance

NO weapon/gun shoots flat out to any distance.....The progectile starts out below the line of sight. Breaks the sight plane and rises......At some point it falls back through the line of sight.....So when a bullet leaves a barrel its either rising or falling.......Never a flat line..........Sometimes it's better to shake your head and walk away.

 

[AJ]

NO weapon/gun shoots flat out to any distance.....The progectile starts out below the line of sight. Breaks the sight plane and rises......At some point it falls back through the line of sight.....So when a bullet leaves a barrel its either rising or falling.......Never a flat line..........Sometimes it's better to shake your head and walk away.

But there are those who do not know that.

 

[pasound]

Great commentary, everyone.

 

[BC38]

Funny, the older I get the worse the arthritis in my hand, the more my cursive looks like I went to medical school.

Heck, I started out that way.

Yeah, I hear you.
My dad always said I had the best handwriting in my 2nd grade class - but that it never got any better!

 

[BC38]

Being a boomer, I was mocking millennials for the standard things of not knowing cursive or no being able to do arithmetic in their heads. My daughter (late 20s) pointed out that it was my generation that

• Invented the participation trophy
• Decided to eliminate shop and home ec classes
• Decided to let 1st graders use calculators for arithmetic class
• Decided that cursive wasn't important
• Decided that children should never be out of sight when playing
• Decided that monkey bars are too dangerous
• Decided that everyone needs a helmet on a bike
• Decided that children can't go to school if it is cold
• And much, much more.

The previous generation is responsible for many of the ills of the current generation.

I wish I could give this post a DOZEN "likes".
Hard times make hard men, hard men make soft times, soft times make soft men, soft men make hard times...
This generation is only so soft because we've made life too soft for them IMO.

 

[steelslaver]

He said they "need a course on operation".

I asked how that could be done without government intrusion.

You say, "someone who purchases a gun needs to study and understand how it operates..."

How that that be done practically?

You say "If I buy a gun and fail to learn how it operates and harm someone with it I am legally (and morally) responsible..."

You are legally responsible regardless of your understanding of how the firearm works.

Citing the legality of operating a motor vehicle after the proper training is specious since you do not need a license to drive a car.

Nor do you need one, in many states, to own a firearm.

Are you advocating training and licensing to purchase a gun?

Licensing? No not at all. Never have never will. Training, yes. but, I am not advocating a legal requirement to get that training to purchase or own a Gun. I am saying it is the end users responsibility to learn how to operate it safely and they can be held legally responsible for such failure if they cause harm by failing to do so. See Alex Baldwin.

Quit reading into it what just isn't there.

 

[alwslate]

Guns and cars come with owner's manuals. The manuals are available for those that buy used guns and cars. The responsibility for using both is on the buyer, not the seller or manufacturer.

 

[Shibadog]

I meant among other knife owners/carriers.

How often do you see folks arguing over whose knife is safer or less likely to accidentally cut the user?

Among knife enthusiasts, it's pretty well accepted that blades are sharp and will cut you if you're not careful, and nobody will argue that knives need safeties to prevent them from accidentally cutting things. Knife safety is the sole responsibility of the user.

If someone drops a gun and it goes off, then everyone starts criticizing it because it isn't drop-safe and the manufacturer has to recall it to fix the supposed issue, but if someone drops a knife and it gets imbedded in the floor at the tip, folks simply except the simple fact that such is what occurs if one drops a knife.

I'm saying that folks ought to be more accepting of the fact that if handled carelessly then it's liable to go off, just as folks readily accept that a knife will cut under the same circumstances.

I dunno about you, but none of my knives have any form of safety, yet I still have all of my fingers and have never been seriously injured by any of them. For the record, I've carried a knife since I was just a boy.

But, if you mishandle a knife you’re liable to cut yourself-mishandle a firearm and you can kill someone you don’t even know is there. Knife folks KNOWthat knives are dangerous and act accordingly-SOME gun owners are clueless.

 

[Donn]

Watch enough You Tube vids and you'll see the younger shooting crowd thinks they've re-invented the wheel.

 

[AJ]

Watch enough You Tube vids and you'll see the younger shooting crowd thinks they've re-invented the wheel.

I have noticed that the newer generation has come up with new names for different things that I was taught 40-50 years ago.

 

[Echo40]

But, if you mishandle a knife you’re liable to cut yourself-mishandle a firearm and you can kill someone you don’t even know is there. Knife folks KNOW that knives are dangerous and act accordingly-SOME gun owners are clueless.

The problem is that no amount of safeties can prevent a clueless, careless, irresponsible individual from handling firearms in an unsafe manner, which is readily evident by the fact that their have been plenty of negligent discharges from firearms with multiple safeties.

Also, let's not forget that the thread itself was on the subject of the safety of the 1911, a pistol with both a manual safety lever, a passive grip safety, and on many modern iterations, a firing pin block which won't disengage unless the trigger is pulled, ergo the argument could easily be made that the 1911 is among the safest of pistols available, yet two young chuckle heads at a gunshop were of the opinion that it was unsafe to carry in Condition One, ergo those who are clueless evidently cannot tell the difference between what is safe and what is unsafe to begin with.

As for the fact that a firearm is potentially more lethal than a knife if mishandled, so are matches or a kitchen stove. Handle those irresponsibly and you can burn a whole apartment building down, potentially resulting in the deaths of many, yet they don't have safties, nor does anyone argue that they ought to.

 

[AJ]

The problem is that no amount of safeties can prevent a clueless, careless, irresponsible individual from handling firearms in an unsafe manner, which is readily evident by the fact that their have been plenty of negligent discharges from firearms with multiple safeties.

Also, let's not forget that the thread itself was on the subject of the safety of the 1911, a pistol with both a manual safety lever, a passive grip safety, and on many modern iterations, a firing pin block which won't disengage unless the trigger is pulled, ergo the argument could easily be made that the 1911 is among the safest of pistols available, yet two young chuckle heads at a gunshop were of the opinion that it was unsafe to carry in Condition One, ergo those who are clueless evidently cannot tell the difference between what is safe and what is unsafe to begin with.

As for the fact that a firearm is potentially more lethal than a knife if mishandled, so are matches or a kitchen stove. Handle those irresponsibly and you can burn a whole apartment building down, potentially resulting in the deaths of many, yet they don't have safeties, nor does anyone argue that they ought to.

No firing in block on any of my M1911's ever. Stopped buying new Colt's once they put those in. Guess I am just old school.

 

[steelslaver]

My work industry has came up with and installed more and more safety rules and "life saving policies" Certifications are now required to do do many tasks or use tools, Fork lift, man lift, crane lift, rigging, welding, fitting qualifications and certs. To weld or use a grinder you need spoggles (sealed glasses) and a face shield. cut resistant gloves. You need fire resistant clothing, cut proof gloves, ear plugs, steel toed boots, safety glasses a hard hat with goggles mounted on them just to walk down the street in most refineries let alone actually do anything. I think if there is one more piece of debris in someones eye they will start encasing our whole head in Lexan.

My 1# offense is been caught without gloves, which they call "hand protection" Hand protection my rosy red. All gloves will do is keep most of the pieces from leaving them if you screw up and stick you pinkies where they do not belong. My Hand Protection is right between my ears.
THINK ABOUT IT

We could do with a whole lot less safety rules on the job if the quit trying to make it all idiot proof and went to work eliminating the idiots.

Another thing is minor cuts and burns a smashed finger nail isn't a real injury. It is however an excellent educational tool and reminder to watch what the #### your doing.

Most old school shooters have had a negligent discharge. Most of the ones with an IQ over 70 have only had one. Hopefully with a LUCKY outcome. We also strive to educate those we teach and those who follow us.

In reality those 2 young men in the gun shop needed to be informed on WHY it was safe to carry a 1911 cocked and locked.