Need info on 1914 vintage Winchester 22lr

[flyfishinjunkee]

I recently picked up this unopened ammo and looking for more info. Is the marking 10-14 the date code (October 1914?). Is this desirable to collectors? Whats it worth? Any information/opinions are welcomed.

 

[DWalt]

10-14 is not the manufacturing date but the date that label style began. Not too unusual but as it is unopened, it is desirable even though its condition is not great. Probably $25-30 if sold by a collectible ammo dealer.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Look up Ray Giles Vintage Ammo and look for that box on his site. One box end dings the value some as well as the tear on the top but I think the value might still be more than suggested, but I could be wrong. There are a bunch of .22 collectors out there who would love to add that to their collection not to mention Winchester folks .

 

[tom2]

It says smokeless greaseless but at that point was rimfire priming corrosive?

 

[desi2358]

It says smokeless greaseless but at that point was rimfire priming corrosive?

Yes, it was corrosive primed. The changeover to non-corrosive by US ammo makers didn't really begin until the 1930's. well after the time period of the OP's box. Non-corrosive was seen as a big deal when it came into use and boxes of the era highlighted that fact in the box labeling as a selling point.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

.22 Rimfire

Don't see that box but most of the old stuff is in the well over $100 dollar range.

 

[DWalt]

A box like that in top condition might easily bring $100 or more. The one shown is definitely not in top condition, more like "good." A serious .22 box collector would consider it as more of a hole-filler.

 

[22shtur]

I agree with DWalt completely. Look on Wards Collectibles website. They're located in Oregon. They sell collectible ammo and boxes several times a year.
Collectable ammo prices are less today then they were 2 years ago. I was gifted some 1930's Palma Match that was selling for $100.00 in 2013, now it sells for about $40.00.

 

[DWalt]

Another thing to remember is that ammunition boxes, even unusual or rare ones, are not the easiest to sell, as there is a somewhat limited number of serious ammunition collectors who are difficult to reach. The only large US ammunition collectors group is the International Ammunition Assocation which has a website much like this one, plus a bi-monthly journal which engages in buying and selling collectible ammunition. Selling to antique ammunition dealers (there are several of them like Ray Giles) is possible, but they will want to buy boxes at a price no more than 50% of what they think they can sell them for.

Recently, perhaps what was the largest small arms ammunition collection in the world, the Woodin collection, was being liquidated. It contained large numbers of absolutely unique items that could not be found anywhere else on earth. Many of the items remain unsold for want of interested buyers. Apparently no one wanted to buy the entire collection despite heroic efforts to sell it intact.

 

[DWalt]

Yes, it was corrosive primed. The changeover to non-corrosive by US ammo makers didn't really begin until the 1930's. well after the time period of the OP's box. Non-corrosive was seen as a big deal when it came into use and boxes of the era highlighted that fact in the box labeling as a selling point.

The Germans came up with the first non-corrosive priming compositions after WWI, which they called Sinoxid. American ammunition makers began offering noncorrosive primed ammunition in the late 1920s. But the US military continued to use corrosive primed small arms ammunition into the Korean War period, except for .30 Carbine.

 

[tom2]

Yea I know about centerfire corrosive priming and that rimfire was first black powder, then a mixture like Lesmok, and then totally smokeless but I had not seen if there is a definitive point that non corrosive priming came in. I have had the heartbreak of seeing alot of vintage 22's that look good but the bores are ate all up. Then you are stuck finding someone to reline them, for a price that is not comparable to the value of the rifle. Some say oh you get the long drill bit and the liner and it is DIY but machining a good chamber is not so easy especially on some guns with odd breaches.

 

[DWalt]

Lesmok (DuPont) and King Semi-Smokeless powders (King Powder Co.) were kissing cousins, both being hybrid propellants that combined black powder and smokeless powder or nitrocellulose. Its most common application was for loading .22 Target ammunition during the period between WWI and WWII. Generally, it was not used for any other types of .22 ammunition. But it was used to a small extent to load a few other cartridge types. In particular, King Semi-Smokeless powder was also fairly popular for use in muzzle loading guns as it burned more cleanly than black powder, sort of the Pyrodex of its time. One story is that the performance of those hybrid propellants declined fairly rapidly over time.

 

[desi2358]

Yea I know about centerfire corrosive priming and that rimfire was first black powder, then a mixture like Lesmok, and then totally smokeless but I had not seen if there is a definitive point that non corrosive priming came in.

As DWalt said there were developments in non-corrosive priming in the immediate post-WWI period with some appearing on the commercial market in the late 20's. When they finally went from experimental to regular production it was a big deal and a selling point for the ammo makers. Boxes were marked to indicate the advantages of the new priming compounds. As an example, a 1930's era Peters 22 box from the display above my desk describes how their "Rustless" cartridges are "non-corrosive and prevent rust and corrosion if used exclusively". Nailing down a specific date depends mainly on the individual company. You can safely figure that if the box doesn't advertise the use of non-corrosive priming it is likely corrosive primed.

 

[AJ]

Try here https://www.wardscollectibles.com/22-box-id/USA/Winchester 2-piece.pdf and scroll down to page 59.

 

[DWalt]

Indeed, at least for American ammunition, something will be on the box label indicating the contents have non-corrosive priming. Brite-bore, Kleanbore, Staynless, Non-corrosive, Rustless, Extra Clean, etc. Every manufacturer had its own catchy name. Remington's Kleanbore is probably the most widely known. They were allegedly the first American maker to use non-corrosive primers and Remington held a contest to name the priming. Someone submitted the Kleanbore name and won a prize. I don't know who the winner was or what the prize was. Probably some ammunition.

 

[gmanofsteel]

Hello, I looked up your Winchester box in ".22 Boxes" by Dunn... It is listed under 1906 issues and is indicated by LR-4. The product code 81 is shown on top. It's a nice box. Cheers, Dave