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Boscobarbell
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Thanks for all that! Much appreciated.
357 Ammo for Lightweight Snubby
- Thread starter Boscobarbell
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Thanks for all that! Much appreciated.
Marshal Tom
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You mentioned the .327Magnum as well. Check out the new Lipsey's 432UC/632UC in .327 HR Magnum. Low recoil, excellent penetration and six rds. I just got one and think it is probably one of the best configured snubbies of all time. You can also get it in .38sp. I had and carried an M&P 340. I ended up selling it off because it was not much fun to shoot. I carried .38sp. short barrel gold dots in it as I do in my 649-2. I did fire a very few .357's out of it just to see the difference. It is sort of a toss up as to which end of the gun you would rather be on when it goes off!
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Boscobarbell
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Haha!! Yeah...the first time I fired my 360pd with full-power 357 I thought I'd bent the space-time continuum!
I actually have a 331 Ti (old school J-frame 32 HR mag revolver). Carrying it as I type. It's my revolver for around the house, but I rarely carry it when I'm out and about. Just can't quite seem to gather enough confidence in it to take it anywhere. I tested a few rounds through it; the best performer was the DoubleTap copper round...full expansion and 13" penetration (testing in Clear Ballistic gel, which would equate to a bit below FBI threshold if done in their testing medium). So, yes, decent performance...but not great. You are correct, though...it really is a joy to shoot, and the 32 Long are even more pleasant.
Maybe I'm just too picky.....
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cd228
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No worries Brother! You raised an interesting conundrum. The 110 treasury load and the 135 NYPD load (Cunningham mentioned it in his book) failing to perform in your gel tests had/has me scratching my head, given both loads reputations.
For chuckles and grins, I cracked open Marshall's book street stoppers, he actually liked most of the .357 offerings, particularly the 125gr FED and Remington JHPs . But he didn't break out the short barrel guns and his research predated the short barrel rounds. He did break the .38 data into 2inch and 4 inch. He like 158gr Lead Hollow Point +Ps.
If you like the clear gel (I obviously am prejudiced against it), Lucky gunner did a bunch of multiple shot 2" and 4" tests and hung them on their website. Interestingly enough their data shows inconsistency between the .38 special shots, which might mirror your experience.
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All very interesting.....but I'll stick to .38 Specials in my M649 and be very comfortable with that decision.
I used my issued .38 on the street three times and it always did the job. First, 158 grain lead round nose standard pressure, next 158 grain lead round nose high velocity & last 158 grain +P hollow point (FBI round). Maybe luck was on my side. In retirement my EDC is a no-lock 340PD loaded w/Remington 110 grain +P semi-jacketed hollow points.
SnidelyWhiplash
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I’ve read Marshall’s book has been largely discredited…can’t remember where I saw that…but you don’t see it quoted anymore. I don’t know if the methodology was the issue but may have been.
It’s always possible someone wanted to push their own conclusions so had to discredit Marshall.
It’s always possible someone wanted to push their own conclusions so had to discredit Marshall.
Ingramite
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357 Magnum - Liberty Ammunition
When you balance out the pros and cons of the mighty Magnum why not get specific. The number one concern for me is over penetration. I want to kill the rat, just not the one behind the refrigerator.....of the neighbor's house. This is a plus if you're shooting through car bodies, like a lawman.
The next notable is the shock or knockdown potential. But a 50gr. projectile impacting at 2100ft/sec. The bullet blows up on impact.
Ok, it's a theory that a lot of folks are betting their lives on. A lightweight hollow point moving at rifle like velocity. All of the energy dumped in the first inches after impact.
My next thing is that .357mag through an alloy J frame is flinch inducing. The very few times I tried it, maybe one or two rounds per session.
Having a nice K frame snub is a world difference in comfort and accuracy. But they are boat anchor heavy.
I looked around and found a Model 386 Night Guard. It's an L Frame and it's 7 rounds. This model has the steel cylinder which scales in at 24.5oz. It's both comfortable and accurate.
When you balance out the pros and cons of the mighty Magnum why not get specific. The number one concern for me is over penetration. I want to kill the rat, just not the one behind the refrigerator.....of the neighbor's house. This is a plus if you're shooting through car bodies, like a lawman.
The next notable is the shock or knockdown potential. But a 50gr. projectile impacting at 2100ft/sec. The bullet blows up on impact.
Ok, it's a theory that a lot of folks are betting their lives on. A lightweight hollow point moving at rifle like velocity. All of the energy dumped in the first inches after impact.
My next thing is that .357mag through an alloy J frame is flinch inducing. The very few times I tried it, maybe one or two rounds per session.
Having a nice K frame snub is a world difference in comfort and accuracy. But they are boat anchor heavy.
I looked around and found a Model 386 Night Guard. It's an L Frame and it's 7 rounds. This model has the steel cylinder which scales in at 24.5oz. It's both comfortable and accurate.
cd228
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Marshall was discredited when some of the agencies he claimed to have pulled data from publicly stated that they had not. I believe one even said that Marshall made up a shooting that he claimed happened in their jurisdiction.
A very prominent FBI Agent, Urey Patrick , in his book Defense of Others took exception to Marshall's methodology. While not citing Marshall he quoted Marshall's methodology almost verbatim and criticized it.
It's unfortunate, If you look into Marshall's history he worked with the FBI's Firearms Division, I've got a report some where in my files with his signature and several other prominent authorities that I got from the FBI via the Defense Technology Info Center. He had also been a very active police officer.
While I wouldn't bet my life on his numbers, I own two of his books. They do have interesting info on the history of the Hydroshock round and various other studies and tests.
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Corbin DPX is great if you can find it. Barnes makes the same load but the recoil is brutal.
Underwood Ammo makes a monolithic bullet that seems to all the rage lately. Xtreme Penetrator.
140 grains. 1550 fps at the muzzle. 747 foot pounds at the muzzle.
Ouch.
Underwood Ammo makes a monolithic bullet that seems to all the rage lately. Xtreme Penetrator.
140 grains. 1550 fps at the muzzle. 747 foot pounds at the muzzle.
Ouch.
cd228
Member
That's some good work there. Where you packing a 4" K frame? Who was the maker on the High Velocity round? I haven't run across those before.
Twice it was a 4” and once a Colt Detective Spl. snub (I was assigned to the Robbery Squad as a Detective). As to the High Velocity it was 1974 and I can’t recall.
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Or .38+p 158 gr Buffalo Bore, SWC lead hollow point, gas check. 1000+ fps out of 1 7/8" snubs (No fun to shoot!). Yes, beats some 357s out of 2" bbls. Im getting old so may swap to 7-800 fps wadcutters.
Smiles, Mike
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Boscobarbell
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I just haven't seen over-penetration in good JHP ammos with 357.
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Boscobarbell
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I've seen a lot of videos where the BB exhibits crazy fluctuations in performance. Lots of examples of gigantic mushrooming expansion and perfect penetration, but also many where the round basically disintegrates and the base over penetrates significantly.
Not to mention that the round hurts more than many 357 rounds!!
cd228
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Thanks for sharing that. Definitely Old School Cool.
Sakràn Dog
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I would suggest Federal 154gr HST or Remington 125gr Golden Sabres.
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Boscobarbell
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Have you shot the HST out of a lightweight revolver? Recoil?
And I agree with you about the Golden Sabres...very, very mild out of my SS revolver (just wondering how they'd do in an alloy J-frame).
Sakràn Dog
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Yes I have - quite a few. Recoil is substantially more with the HST’s, but you are firing a full power 357 magnums out of a light-weight revolver. Both rounds were very impressive in my tests.
.357M has been my favorite pistol cartridge since 1965 and I have never thought it was made to shoot in light weight pistols. A 2 1/2 M19 is the smallest gun I shoot with a full house load and I shoot very, very few. Larry
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