32 Federal Magnum- what Happened??

[hkcavalier]

Like the .357SIG, I always thought it was a neat cartridge that was marketed to the wrong size gun. This talk of 100 grains at 1500fps won't get realized from a 2 or 3 inch pocket gun. It suffers from the same problem as the .357 Magnum...medium bore, lots of powder, not enough barrel. I think a .327 FM with a 5" or 6" barrel would be pretty neat, especially as a 7 or 8 shooter, but not a snub. You're definitely getting 300-400 fps over .32 H&R, and also getting a lot of flash, noise, and recoil too. I seriously doubt the added velocity will amount to anything at snubnose distances.

 

[BC38]

Like the .357SIG, I always thought it was a neat cartridge that was marketed to the wrong size gun. This talk of 100 grains at 1500fps won't get realized from a 2 or 3 inch pocket gun. It suffers from the same problem as the .357 Magnum...medium bore, lots of powder, not enough barrel. I think a .327 FM with a 5" or 6" barrel would be pretty neat, especially as a 7 or 8 shooter, but not a snub. You're definitely getting 300-400 fps over .32 H&R, and also getting a lot of flash, noise, and recoil too. I seriously doubt the added velocity will amount to anything at snubnose distances.

I hear you... BUT, since muzzle energy is calculated as

E = M x V^2 (Muzzle Energy = Mass [bullet weight] times Velocity SQUARED),

that extra 300-400 fps of velocity with a bullet of the same weight (compared to the 32 H&R) adds a LOT of kinetic energy.

Kinetic energy is what does damage in a flesh and bone target.

That seems like a reasonable trade off for the extra muzzle flash and noise.

JMO, and YMMV....

 

[tlawler]

Like the .357SIG, I always thought it was a neat cartridge that was marketed to the wrong size gun. This talk of 100 grains at 1500fps won't get realized from a 2 or 3 inch pocket gun. It suffers from the same problem as the .357 Magnum...medium bore, lots of powder, not enough barrel. I think a .327 FM with a 5" or 6" barrel would be pretty neat, especially as a 7 or 8 shooter, but not a snub. You're definitely getting 300-400 fps over .32 H&R, and also getting a lot of flash, noise, and recoil too. I seriously doubt the added velocity will amount to anything at snubnose distances.

I can get into the low to mid 1400’s without much trouble out of my 3” Ruger using coated lead bullets. I think I could easily push a jacketed 100 grain hollow point past 1500. Ultimately, I’d like to get a 120 grain XTP up to 1500. That would push the ME up to 600 FPE and be a heck of a personal defense round.

 

[glenncal1]

If you can find one of these, a Lipsey Ruger GP-100 in .327. Has a very nice trigger (not the usual Ruger), 5" barrel and enough weight to be comfortable with .327 ammo.

 

[Frailer]

I hear you... BUT, since muzzle energy is calculated as

E = M x V^2 (Muzzle Energy = Mass [bullet weight] times Velocity SQUARED),

that extra 300-400 fps of velocity with a bullet of the same weight (compared to the 32 H&R) adds a LOT of kinetic energy.

Kinetic energy is what does damage in a flesh and bone target.

That seems like a reasonable trade off for the extra muzzle flash and noise.

JMO, and YMMV....

Respectfully, the argument over the kinetic energy v momentum in terminal ballistics has raged for many decades.

It is not “kinetic energy” (the force required to accelerate a given mass to a given velocity) that “does damage in a flesh and bone target.” It is the bullet. This seems grossly simplistic, but it matters.

The bottom line, IMHO, is the oft-repeated phrase, “All handgun rounds suck.” Because they do.

Velocity matters. Bullet mass matters. But where that bullet goes matters much, much more than either.

I will never tell someone which caliber/cartridge they should use. I would, however caution that they probably shouldn’t use numbers on a page to make their choice.

 

[Tom K]

Whats interesting about the 327 federal magnum is that recoil is low
but muzzle energy is 500 ft pounds with a 100 gr bullet going 1500
feet per second

I own a Taurus 327 2" version. Here's a picture from the factory website.

Recoil in such a small gun is not low, it is pretty unpleasant to shoot with full factory .327 ammo. Note that for some reason, the 2" has a spur hammer and can be cocked and fired single action, while the 3" has a bobbed hammer and is double-action only.

The 2" guns are very common on Gunbroker right now, the 3" less so. Be aware that Taurus has a habit of coming out with a particular model and making lots of them, but then stopping and then they become difficult to find. So if you want one, get it while you can.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Whats interesting about the 327 federal magnum is that recoil is low
but muzzle energy is 500 ft pounds with a 100 gr bullet going 1500
feet per second

1500 FPS?............What load and barrel length?

 

[Sistema1927]

.327 Fed Mag is still a bit "snappy" in a steel frame 3" Ruger Sp101. Yes, I did have to do some polishing and shim the hammer to get a decent trigger pull. (Shown here with .357 and .38 cousins.)

 

[PHS327]

I have a 4.2 inch sp101 in 327 federal Mag. The federal 85 grain rated at 1400 fps is much easier to shoot than the federal 100 grain 1500 fps version but that one is ok also. I had to have a trigger job done so that my daughter could pull the trigger more than a few times. She won't shoot the 327 fed mag, will shoot 32 h&r mag but prefers 32 S&W long. This gun is very versatile. Will also shoot 32 S&W short and (I am told) 32 acp. The ruger is more expensive than Taurus but nowhere near as expensive as a Smith would be. It's also a higher quality gun than the Taurus. They also make a 3 in model.

 

[H Richard]

One thing about the .32 H&R Mag in a steel cylinder, is they can be reamed out to 327 FM very easily, as many on this board have done. I've seen many stories of pleased shooters having done so.


The light weights, leave alone, the 32 H&R is plenty in the J Frames or your shooting hand will complain to you.

 

[rockquarry]

Respectfully, the argument over the kinetic energy v momentum in terminal ballistics has raged for many decades.

It is not “kinetic energy” (the force required to accelerate a given mass to a given velocity) that “does damage in a flesh and bone target.” It is the bullet. This seems grossly simplistic, but it matters.

The bottom line, IMHO, is the oft-repeated phrase, “All handgun rounds suck.” Because they do.

Velocity matters. Bullet mass matters. But where that bullet goes matters much, much more than either.

I will never tell someone which caliber/cartridge they should use. I would, however caution that they probably shouldn’t use numbers on a page to make their choice.

Very good post and you're certainly right, but many have no interest in logic.

 

[Rule3]

No, it's not for sale (yet)

 

[hkcavalier]

Maybe it's military experience, or being old-school, but the point of velocity against two legged targets is, beyond a certain point, to increase the point blank range, create standoff, or in certain cases to penetrate barriers/armor.

I just don't see the gain at snubnose/house/dark alley distances, and no one has been able to definitely prove a gain to me. Big bores against wild animals are a different story --- now I kind of want 30-40 inches of penetration at close range.

Over and over again I read self and home defense stories where the good guy/gal had a .22...or an old .32 top-break...or a .38 Special with ancient LRN...or, yes, a 9mm. It's very rarely a common big bore and NEVER an enthusiast death ray cartridge like .50AE, 9x23, .460 Rowland, etc.. I admit that this is self-selecting as people in bad neighborhoods where most of the encounters take place don't have the funds for magazine cover handguns.

From an innovation standpoint, cramming the most cartridge into the lightest and smallest form factor is interesting, but the law of diminishing returns still holds.

 

[BC38]

Respectfully, the argument over the kinetic energy v momentum in terminal ballistics has raged for many decades.

It is not “kinetic energy” (the force required to accelerate a given mass to a given velocity) that “does damage in a flesh and bone target.” It is the bullet. This seems grossly simplistic, but it matters.

The bottom line, IMHO, is the oft-repeated phrase, “All handgun rounds suck.” Because they do.

Velocity matters. Bullet mass matters. But where that bullet goes matters much, much more than either.

I will never tell someone which caliber/cartridge they should use. I would, however caution that they probably shouldn’t use numbers on a page to make their choice.

Maybe it's military experience, or being old-school, but the point of velocity against two legged targets is, beyond a certain point, to increase the point blank range, create standoff, or in certain cases to penetrate barriers/armor.

I just don't see the gain at snubnose/house/dark alley distances, and no one has been able to definitely prove a gain to me. Big bores against wild animals are a different story --- now I kind of want 30-40 inches of penetration at close range.

Over and over again I read self and home defense stories where the good guy/gal had a .22...or an old .32 top-break...or a .38 Special with ancient LRN...or, yes, a 9mm. It's very rarely a common big bore and NEVER an enthusiast death ray cartridge like .50AE, 9x23, .460 Rowland, etc.. I admit that this is self-selecting as people in bad neighborhoods where most of the encounters take place don't have the funds for magazine cover handguns.

From an innovation standpoint, cramming the most cartridge into the lightest and smallest form factor is interesting, but the law of diminishing returns still holds.

You are right in saying the KE of accelerating the bullet isn't what does the damage. It is the KE the bullet imparts to the target that does the damage.

You make good points, but isn't the debate about KE vs momentum for terminal ballistics pretty much always comparing HEAVIER bullets moving slower vs lighter bullets moving faster?

That isn't the comparison I was making, because a lot of the 327 Fed Mag SD ammo is loaded with a bullet OF THE SAME weight as the H&R Mag loads. So that debate really isn't pertinent. I think we can all agree that with the same weight bullet the faster round with higher KE is going to have better performance for SD purposes.

Also KE is just one benefit of velocity. Another major benefit of the higher velocity is more penetration AND better, more reliable expansion of hollow point SD ammo. Bigger, deeper holes are always better when trying to stop an aggressor.

To me, both of those facts seem pretty logical and self-evident.

 

[Gunhohulk]

No, it's not for sale (yet)

I’ll do you a favor and send you $500 for it when you get bored!

 

[gnb]

I love my LCR .327 and enjoy shooting .32 S&W Long wadcutters and .32 H&R Mag WCs. Recoil wise, .32 Long WCs are like shooting .22 LR except more accurate, and H&R Mags are like shooting .38 SPL WCs.

 

[hkcavalier]

You are right in saying the KE of accelerating the bullet isn't what does the damage. It is the KE the bullet imparts to the target that does the damage.

You make good points, but isn't the debate about KE vs terminal ballistics pretty much always comparing HEAVIER bullets moving slower vs lighter bullets moving faster?

That isn't the comparison I was making, because a lot of the 327 Fed Mag SD ammo is loaded with a bullet OF THE SAME weight as the H&R Mag loads. So that debate really isn't pertinent. I think we can all agree that with the same weight bullet the faster round with higher KE is going to have better performance for SD purposes.

Also KE is just one benefit of velocity. Another major benefit of the higher velocity is more penetration AND better, more reliable expansion of hollow point SD ammo. Bigger, deeper holes are always better when trying to stop an aggressor.

To me, both of those facts seem pretty logical and self-evident.

Again, diminishing returns. If 9x19 is good, why not 9x25 Dillon? You can easily scoot a 115gr north of 1700fps with a 5" gun. But you end up with pretty snappy recoil plus lots of flash and noise. Good choice if you need to make handgun shots out past 100 yards, but that's very few of us. There are folks & agencies out there with requirements like that, hence the 7.5FK.

I think we're arguing over preferences vs. hard facts, really. I like 'sweet spot' gun + ammo combinations that don't try and push the envelope too hard. I don't think magnums make good SD snubnose guns, but to each their own.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Up in post 24, that Lipsey GP100 is a great gun. I had that one and a regular 6” GP in 327 Fed Magnum. I took both into a local gun shop to see if he’d take one on trade for a 629-6. The kid waiting on me took them both into the back and came right back out and said the owner would take the Lipsey for just about what I paid new for it. I was happy so that’s all I care about. The 327 6” Ruger has an excellent trigger. Hardly any kick. I do wish I could find a nice S&W in 327 FM, if they in fact DO exist! Double ear protection is almost a necessity! I like the caliber; I’d like to see more available, especially from S&W.
The 32 caliber has been around for a few decades and they don’t beat the palm of my hands at all. Plus, the 327 will shoot all of the 32 caliber cartridges; if you can find them on the shelf somewhere if you don’t reload.

 

[BC38]

Again, diminishing returns. If 9x19 is good, why not 9x25 Dillon? You can easily scoot a 115gr north of 1700fps with a 5" gun. But you end up with pretty snappy recoil plus lots of flash and noise. Good choice if you need to make handgun shots out past 100 yards, but that's very few of us. There are folks & agencies out there with requirements like that, hence the 7.5FK.

I think we're arguing over preferences vs. hard facts, really. I like 'sweet spot' gun + ammo combinations that don't try and push the envelope too hard. I don't think magnums make good SD snubnose guns, but to each their own.

I think we're having a discussion - not an argument. Arguments get emotional. I prefer to discuss the subject by presenting the facts as I understand them, and why they influence my opinions and preferences.
I choose 9x19 parabellum with 13 rounds of good high performance SD ammo because I can get comparable performance to 5-shot J-frame 357 magnum revolver in a small concealable package (P365) the same size and with 7 more rounds. And it shoots better for me - with less recoil to boot.
I don't choose the more powerful 9x25 Dillon because it would be require toting around a gun with the size and weight of a FS 1911.
If there were 9x19 ammo with the performance of the 9x25 OR if the 9x25 were available in a package the size of the P365 I'd be carry one of them instead.
If I'm going to carry a small gun with only 5-6 rounds I want ammo that as much speed, power, and KE as I can handle and shoot well.
But that's just me.

 

[jcelect]

327 Mag

For those looking for the S&W revolver in the 327 Mag caliber and can't find one, make one! This is the gun that S&W should have produced!

This is a 16-4 chambered in the 327 Mag. The cost of the rechambering is not very high and is easy to do for most gunsmiths. Your cost will be in finding he 16-4!
jcelect