What happened to the Old Smith and Wesson Company

[BC38]

Sadly, producing the best possible quality comes with a high price. A price far above what most of us are willing to pay for a revolver.

Anyone who wants near perfect quality should buy a Korth.

Most people have champagne tastes, but a beer budget.

Big corporations, like S&W, recognize this and have to tailor their operations and product offerings accordingly.

They have to manufacture the best products they can and still meet a certain price-point. In the case of S&W that price point is the $500-$1500 range.

Compare that to the Korth revolvers that start at around $3,000 and go up from there.

Expecting Korth quality on a S&W budget is unrealistic. If you want perfect quality control, pay the price for it and buy a hand-assembled Korth.

Or spend 1/4 - 1/2 the price on a S&W and deal with any imperfections you find.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Sorry to say, but this ain't a prefect world...

 

[GnarlsR2]

All firearm manufacturers have specific and inherent responsibility and liability.

Most handguns are purchased for self-defense. If I must pull the trigger of my EDC to save my life, and it doesn’t fire, does the gun manufacturer have any liability?

As a result of the failure, if my handgun is inspected and it’s determined by experts that the firing pin failed. If the gun has a documented history of a 500 to 1,000 rounds, proper maintenance and replacement of all parts per the manufacturer’s “recommended replacement parts at round count” were done, does the manufacturer have any liability?

If I discover a lug nut is missing from my car, it is not going to cause a life or death situation. I won’t call Toyota, I’ll just buy another lug nut and check the torque.

It’s reasonable to believe that most product consumers do NOT expect a perfect product, whether it’s a new car or a new drip coffee maker. Mechanical devices have the potential to fail.

Now that I have gone through the process of purchasing a pocket carry handgun for defense and then experiencing the list of issues, I now have a different perspective on my RAT (Reliability And Trustworthy) level for my weapon.

The fact that a firearm manufacturer’s $500 or $1,000 handgun fails prematurely at some point is important, but it’s how the manufacturer handles the defects and failure – AKA Customer Service.

Knowing what I know now, after the purchase of my BG2 August 2024 strictly with the intent for it to be a low round-count CC or EDC for defense, if S&W offered an OPTION, for an extra cost, and a reasonable delay of delivery, at time of purchase, to inspect ALL parts and hand re-assemble it, test fire it (like a dyno-test on an engine), adjust sights to a logical MOA at a specific distance, record and include all inspection and test data, clean and lube the gun to make it ready to fire out of the box, how much would I pay for that OPTION?

At what dollar amount will the average person say their life or the life of loved-one is worth?

 

[steelslaver]

Liability and responsibility.

I will once again agree that they need to step up on quality control.

BUT first of all

No manufacture is selling guns with a guarantee of being reliable for injuring and/or killing people. They can't do that without opening the door to a zillion lawsuits. They can imply they are great for defense all they want, but have to leave out how that actually works.

Plus, once again

If I purchase a gun with the express intent of CC and self defense, I have the personal responsibility to check it out for function. Anyone who buys one, loads it and start carrying as a defense weapon is more negligent than the manufacture. IMHO

I don't care who put their seal of approval on the gun, I am going to check it over and fire a bunch of ammo and the specific ammo I will carry in it before I believe in it enough to believe in it to defend my life.

If money is no object to you in this regard, and your not willing to make that effort yourself, you can sent me any S&W revolver, along with 200 rounds of your carry ammo, $500 to cover my time and I will disassemble, inspect it then test fire it for you. Plus, if I find any, I will fix any issues and guarantee it will work with that specific ammo if you maintain the gun and ammo properly.

What amount off your own personal effort is your wife or loved ones life worth???

 

[Tabby Lynn]

I will NEVER purchase another Smith & Wesson product after my last two experiences with them. On my original model 629 44 magnum, with the old-style sights, the front screw fell out. Everybody told me to call S & W and they would send me a screw for free.
I didn't care about the "free" part so I stopped at a gunsmith but he didn't have any sight screws. I called Smith & Wesson and after giving them the serial number they said "We don't stock any parts for that gun, it was made in 1986"
I asked about the great Smith & Wesson lifetime guarantee? The reply was, "Sorry we don't stock parts for that gun anymore"
I would have thought they would be proud of one of their guns still in action that was made almost 40 years ago.

The second incident that finished me with S&W was a month ago, I purchased a new stainless steel revolver from them. I shot two rounds and then the cylinder would not rotate. I took the gun to a gunsmith who had to disassemble the gun. Inside he found a large chip of metal that was left over from the machining/assembling process and it was jammed in the mechanisim. I called S&W, not to complain but to suggest they do a better job on quality control in whichever factory was making these revolvers since this type of issue could hurt their reputation. The customer service guy said "Well those things happen"
That did it. In my mind, they are no longer a quality company.

Martin, I for one am very sorry that you have the sad story to tell. With the screw issue, it was your gunsmith that you should be unhappy with. Firearms have any number of different screws that hold them together. Those screws are relatively common and usually by searching through a gunsmith screw selection a good gunsmith should be able to find one that is the same size and thread pitch and make it work. It may not be a perfect cosmetic match, but it will usually hold the piece together. If cosmetics are important, have him make two, one for the front and one for the rear. If you were really interested in finding an original there is a company called Numrich Arms, also known as, "The Gun Parts Company," that most likely could have provided you with said screw.

One of the things that many gun owners do to is to check screws for tightness/torque from time to time during the cleaning process. Screws loosening over time is not unusual. Many a rifle has been thought to have outlived its useful life when it quit grouping, only to find that the action screws had loosened. This was not unusual with wood stocks but still happens with composite stocks.

Do you have any power tool that you bought 40 years ago? If so try to find parts to repair it. Not gonna happen. With the exception of possibly the Colt 1911 getting parts from the manufacturer for any 40 year old firearm might be difficult. Are parts available, absolutely but you may have to do some research to find them.

Have you owned a car that had a factory recall? The factory recall is because something was found to be wrong with it after manufacture. When found, manufacturer has to fix the issue. This is similar to the piece of metal that your gunsmith found in the action. There was something that went wrong during the manufacturing process. You made an error by taking the new revolver to your gunsmith instead of calling Smith & Wesson and sending it back to them. If they are not made aware of the issue they are powerless to fix it. Inconvenient, certainly, but they can't fix something if the don't know about it.

So thank you for not buying Smith & Wesson revolvers anymore. It leaves just one more for me to buy and treasure. Good luck with Brand X.

 

[Pastor1]

Hello,

I have been a member here for a long time and have gleaned a lot of good information from this site. I belong to other Smith & Wesson forums, but I have never posted on any of them because I have never felt the need to.

I am 61 years old, and growing up, my dad was the armorer for the city and the sheriff's department in my hometown. I had the privilege, as a young boy and teenager, before I joined the military at 17, of seeing and helping my dad in his shop. I still remember the wonderful smell of a real gunsmith shop, where I would meet and speak with many policemen and deputies as they came to visit and bring my dad their firearms to fix, clean, upgrade, and work on. It was truly a different time, and I am so blessed to have been part of it.

During that time (the 1970s and early 1980s), the majority of firearms carried by our city police and sheriff's deputies were S&W revolvers, mostly Model 19s with a four-inch barrel. Some carried the N-frame model 28 (I saw very few model 27s, as the cost was substantially higher than that of the 28). I do remember some deputies who carried a Colt 4" Python (and yes, they had issues too).

Dad had attended many Smith & Wesson schools and had a large inventory of factory parts, which contributed to his certification as an armor specialist for the law enforcement departments in our county.

I suppose I'm taking the long way around the barn - I just wanted to share that, even back through the 1970s and 1980s, my dad was very busy working on and fixing S&W revolvers. Yes, the fit and finish were way above what is on their revolvers today. But they did have problems and issues. My dad is 92 and still has a Model 66-2 2-1/2 inch with him at all times. He loves S&W revolvers.

I would love to read his journals/manual that he kept (which he had to send into S&W when he retired) which he recorded the officer's name, the firearm, and the iusse of the firearm, and the repair that he completed, and compare the number of issues to what we read on these social media posts today.

I own many older S&W revolvers, but I have also purchased two Model 66-8s with 4" and 2 7/8 "barrels, a Model 686+ with a 4" barrel, a 642, a 638, and a Performance Center 60-15 for my wife. We have had NO issues with any of them. I have upgraded the triggers on the 642 & the 66-8 2 7/8 with a Wilson Combat trigger kit and polished the insides with an Arkansas stone. They all shoot better than I can, and I have just purchased my first M&P9 2.0, which is a considerable improvement over the Glock that I own.

I cannot speak to the inner circles of management within S&W, and I agree that if they want to stay competitive and relevant in today's firearm world, they need to focus on building quality, rather than developing more and different models that the YouTube so-called gun experts say they need to create.

Anyway, this is the ramblings from an old man that loves a good quality S&W revolver - either old or new.

Thank you for reading -