Smith 45acp revolvers, moon clips, and springs....

[71vette]

Figured I'd start a new thread on this as I've learned some things through experimentation. I've been shooting my 625-8 JM revolver quite a bit and have had some failure to fire issues with different configs. I picked it up used late last year and it had a very light DA trigger pull. Turns out the previous owner had backed off the strain screw. Light strike problem number one..... After I tightened it up I lost my buttery smooth and light trigger pull and that just wouldn't do. I have had good luck with Wilson spring kits in a couple other revolvers so I gave it a shot in this 625. No dice. Several light strikes on my next range trip. I added a Power Custom extended firing pin. When I swapped it out some "gunk" came out of the firing pin channel so I figured it would all be cool now. No dice. The other variable I had was the use of the 625 RIMZ polymer moon clips. For this last weekend I'd swapped back to the factory hammer spring. It didn't play nice with the Wilson 14lb trigger return spring. A Wolff 14lb spring worked fine so that's what I stuck with.

The 625 RIMZ polymer moon clips introduce some "play" into the situation. With the factory hammer spring and the Power Custom extended firing pin I had no issues setting off primers in single action. I had two failures to fire of the 24 rounds I shot double action. Switching to steel moon clips I had zero issues.

A quote from the RIMZ website:

The RIMZ 625 moon clip is made out of a more flexible Polymer material ( compared to the RIMZ 25 moon clip ) and is the easiest moon clip to load and unload, and is for RANGE use ONLY. The RIMZ 625 moon clip will also fit all the revolvers listed on this website( see RIMZ 25) EXCEPT the S&W 625-3 and older.

I really like the plastic moon clips as they do make it super easy to load and unload clips, but I just need to remember that they are not 100%.

My "final configuration" for the 625-8 JM is a stock hammer spring, Wolff 14lb trigger return spring, and the Power Custom extended firing pin. With steel clips I'm 100%, and I have a nice and smooth double action. I need to get a good gauge and see what the trigger pull is SA/DA.

For the record I've had zero ignition issues with the Wilson spring kits for the K/L/N on anything that wasn't 45acp. My 624-ND and my 27-2 both are running Wilson hammer springs and return springs with zero issues. 45acp guns apparently need the heavier hammer springs.

 

[rockquarry]

Figured I'd start a new thread on this as I've learned some things through experimentation. I've been shooting my 625-8 JM revolver quite a bit and have had some failure to fire issues with different configs. I picked it up used late last year and it had a very light DA trigger pull. Turns out the previous owner had backed off the strain screw. Light strike problem number one..... After I tightened it up I lost my buttery smooth and light trigger pull and that just wouldn't do. I have had good luck with Wilson spring kits in a couple other revolvers so I gave it a shot in this 625. No dice. Several light strikes on my next range trip. I added a Power Custom extended firing pin. When I swapped it out some "gunk" came out of the firing pin channel so I figured it would all be cool now. No dice. The other variable I had was the use of the 625 RIMZ polymer moon clips. For this last weekend I'd swapped back to the factory hammer spring. It didn't play nice with the Wilson 14lb trigger return spring. A Wolff 14lb spring worked fine so that's what I stuck with.

The 625 RIMZ polymer moon clips introduce some "play" into the situation. With the factory hammer spring and the Power Custom extended firing pin I had no issues setting off primers in single action. I had two failures to fire of the 24 rounds I shot double action. Switching to steel moon clips I had zero issues.

A quote from the RIMZ website:

The RIMZ 625 moon clip is made out of a more flexible Polymer material ( compared to the RIMZ 25 moon clip ) and is the easiest moon clip to load and unload, and is for RANGE use ONLY. The RIMZ 625 moon clip will also fit all the revolvers listed on this website( see RIMZ 25) EXCEPT the S&W 625-3 and older.

I really like the plastic moon clips as they do make it super easy to load and unload clips, but I just need to remember that they are not 100%.

My "final configuration" for the 625-8 JM is a stock hammer spring, Wolff 14lb trigger return spring, and the Power Custom extended firing pin. With steel clips I'm 100%, and I have a nice and smooth double action. I need to get a good gauge and see what the trigger pull is SA/DA.

For the record I've had zero ignition issues with the Wilson spring kits for the K/L/N on anything that wasn't 45acp. My 624-ND and my 27-2 both are running Wilson hammer springs and return springs with zero issues. 45acp guns apparently need the heavier hammer springs.

I've found using the gun as it came from the factory without any tampering and Auto Rim brass works perfectly with 100% reliablity so far (more than twenty years).

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Get yourself a mooning/demooning tool and use steel moon clips. A lee bulge buster helps too as bulges and bumps on used reloaded brass will cause issues loading 6 rounds at the same time. Even though I use a loaded round checker I still run my 45acp loads through my bulge buster. Makes them so they run in any of my 45 sbr’s, autos and revolvers.

 

[StrawHat]

My revolvers all used factory springs, whether for duty, carry or competition. Clicks are the loudest sound in the world when you are expecting a bang.

Kevin

 

[Toyman]

I shoot this 22-4 using RIMZ plastic full moon clips easy to load and unload them.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

A lee bulge buster helps too as bulges and bumps on used reloaded brass will cause issues loading 6 rounds at the same time.

I'm glad to hear that process works for you but quit honestly I have never encountered any used 45ACP brass (unlike 40 S&W brass) which was bulged due to being fired in an unsupported barrel, which 1911 barrels typically are, because 45ACP loads are relatively low power, even factory +P.

I have bulged handloaded 45 Super brass while trying to find its upper limit in a 1911 though & that brass went in the trash.

I too load 45ACP ammo for my pistols & revolvers, using several different brands of reloading dies over the years, & I've never had any issues with compatibility between them so I can't imagine why a Lee Bulge Buster would ever be needed for 45ACP?

.

 

[rockquarry]

I'm glad to hear that process works for you but quit honestly I have never encountered any used 45ACP brass (unlike 40 S&W brass) which was bulged due to being fired in an unsupported barrel, which 1911 barrels typically are, because 45ACP loads are relatively low power, even factory +P.

I have bulged handloaded 45 Super brass while trying to find its upper limit in a 1911 though & that brass went in the trash.

I too load 45ACP ammo for my pistols & revolvers, using several different brands of reloading dies over the years, & I've never had any issues with compatibility between them so I can't imagine why a Lee Bulge Buster would ever be needed for 45ACP?

.

I'm not familiar with the Lee "Bulge Buster", but also wondered about using such a tool. What would cause one to need a die like this if you adhere to conventional and proven handloading practices?

 

[steelslaver]

I'm not familiar with the Lee "Bulge Buster", but also wondered about using such a tool. What would cause one to need a die like this if you adhere to conventional and proven handloading practices?

Sometimes you will run in to semi auto handgun brass that has a slight bulge in the case hear the rear. Where the rounds ramp into the chamber on semi autos leaves an area in the rear to the chamber that isn't tight to the brass. A combination of a ramp on the large size for positive feeding, higher pressure rounds and or weak brass can cause it to have a bulge in that area. Supposedly rounds fired in submachine guns were notorious for this.

Another thing that might cause a need for this is a very minimal chamber where everything on the case also has to be minimal dimension

 

[rockquarry]

Sometimes you will run in to semi auto handgun brass that has a slight bulge in the case hear the rear. Where the rounds ramp into the chamber on semi autos leaves an area in the rear to the chamber that isn't tight to the brass. A combination of a ramp on the large size for positive feeding, higher pressure rounds and or weak brass can cause it to have a bulge in that area. Supposedly rounds fired in submachine guns were notorious for this.

Another thing that might cause a need for this is a very minimal chamber where everything on the case also has to be minimal dimension

Very good, to-the-point reply. Thank you. I hadn't considered these aspects, though I have dealt with minimal chambers a few times.

 

[mikerjf]

Looking at the pic of the loaded moons on the wood dowels made me think of that recent video showing the ejected case setting off rounds on the table next to the shooter… I know lever guys with tube magazines are supposed to use flat points… anyone ever heard of any problem stacking moons?

 

[scooter123]

All I have every used in my 610 and 625 Moon Clip revolvers have been the steel moon clips. Made up my own de-mooner with a piece of steel tubing and a Dremel to produce one end with a tab sticking out and the other end had a 3/16 dowel rod hammer thru it to produce a T handle. As for mounting the cartridges in the clip, roll it into the notch and it's pretty easy.

Both revolvers have the triggers tuned with a 14 lbs. rebound spring and 0.015-0.025 inch shim under the strain screw to produce a 9 lbs. DA trigger pull.

 

[steelslaver]

I have an ammo box setup with dowels so I can stack lots of loaded moon clips. Unless you used some kind of pointed bullets I believe you would really have to slam it down hard to set off any primers. I doubt it could happen with round nose hollow point or SWC unless you dropped it from well over head high.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

I’ve found some of my old brass reloads will go through the bulge buster easily while others have a distinct tightness at the base where the sizing die can't reach and again on the rim. Non of this is glock bulge. I think its a combination of different sized chambers, assorted brass, different sized rim grooves, hot loads from previous shooters and brass abuse from feeding -firing and ejection in semis. The flex of the plastic clips would help but steel clips don’t flex so any deviation from new factory brass will add up and cause binding of the 6 clipped rounds. Ive had rounds that chambered singly fine but bind when put in a moon clip. The bulge buster helps eliminate those.

 

[zeke]

I'm glad to hear that process works for you but quit honestly I have never encountered any used 45ACP brass (unlike 40 S&W brass) which was bulged due to being fired in an unsupported barrel, which 1911 barrels typically are, because 45ACP loads are relatively low power, even factory +P.

I have bulged handloaded 45 Super brass while trying to find its upper limit in a 1911 though & that brass went in the trash.

I too load 45ACP ammo for my pistols & revolvers, using several different brands of reloading dies over the years, & I've never had any issues with compatibility between them so I can't imagine why a Lee Bulge Buster would ever be needed for 45ACP?

.

Years ago bought a carton of reloads at a gun show with mixed brass. Then reloaded them about 20 times. Bought a tighter chambered 1911 and had some problems with feeding the reloads. Used a buldge buster and problem solved, while also lengthening the brass back into spec.

Imo repeated sizing with a carbide die eventually flows brass toward the base of the brass (where the die can't reach) giving it a noticeable and measurably larger dia. 45 acp brass also "shortens" with repeated reloading. While most the time this may not be a problem depending on individual gun being used, it can end up being a concern with another tighter chambered gun. Am now using a modified Lyman carbide die and shaved shell holder that can size further down the case.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

I have also ground down the bottom of sizers and the tops of shell holders to get more of a case resized.

 

[jag1954]

Here's what I did, I sent my Model 25 cylinder to TK Customs so that they could machine it to accept .45ACP. The supplied moon clips are quite durable when shooting .45ACP. It runs flawlessly with either .45ACP or 45 Colt.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

The flex of the plastic clips would help but steel clips don’t flex so any deviation from new factory brass will add up and cause binding of the 6 clipped rounds. I've had rounds that chambered singly fine but bind when put in a moon clip. The bulge buster helps eliminate those.

Again, if it works for you cool. I've been loading 45ACP since the early 70's & my current supply of used 45ACP brass to reload is coming out of a once full 5 gal bucket that was all range pickup brass gifted to me.

If the individual rounds chamber fine independently, but not when loaded in the moonclips, that sounds like an alignment issue caused by the moonclips, not an issue caused by the reloads.

.

 

[TheTinMan]

I have several .45 Auto revolvers that those plastic moon clips won’t fit in - they’re too thick to let the cylinder close. It’s easier to use the metal clips with a tool or make up .45 Auto Rim ammo.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Gotta love 45ARs

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[71vette]

I picked up a TK Customs mooner/de-mooner tool set. Works like a champ. I’ve got a bunch of steel clips of various brands so I’m just going to go that way.