.21 Sharp - new kid in town

[cadmike]

I’m curious to see how these rounds might shoot out of my .22lr revolvers.

 

[Dave Lively]

I’m curious to see how these rounds might shoot out of my .22lr revolvers.

Poorly. The bullets will be undersized in a 22. The .001 difference in diameter is often results in guns like Ruger's single six being more accurate with 22 Magnum than with 22 LR. This would be a bigger difference.

 

[Sistema1927]

Neat concept. No market. DOA.

 

[gdogs]

I could see getting a 10/22 takedown barrel in this caliber, if for no other reason than just to try it out.

 

[Drm50]

Although I see no reason for it, one of the old scribes wrote “ there is no bad cartridges only inaccurate rifles”. The 21 is going to be a failure and I’ll wager a $100 on that anytime.

 

[skwchock]

.21 Winchester Sharp

Read in NRA newsletter that Winchester is releasing a new cartridge-- 21 Winchester Sharp to resolve some of the "shortfalls" of the .22 LR.

Why? The .22LR is RN -- sure. But making it a "pointy" nose will make it better? Probably the only thing that will "increase" is the cost per round for this "new and improved" bullet.

My opinion. This is another "trendy" solution for a non-existent problem.

 

[LittleCooner]

Gun manufactures have to sell stuff to stay in business. So every couple of years, we have "new and improved" chambers. With so much interest in the past few years in long range and extra long range shooting, this one may take hold. Using the same 22 LR case as it has existed for over a hundred years and now loaded with a copper jacketed pointed bullet which provides a much improved ballistic coefficient for the long range work and the barrel has to be 21 caliber because of the old rebated base of those lead 22lr bullets. I have already saw a thread on another forum talking about relining the barrel of an older 22LR for the new round. I think this one has potential to "make it" in the world. I expect much improved accuracy in the 100-200 yard range with this new round for the old "22" case.

 

[smoothshooter]

Ballistically, what does it offer over over the Winchester Super Magnum?

 

[Rudi]

For the "gotta have the new stuff" crowd.

 

[Valmet]

Soon to be in the .30 Super Carry, .45GAP, .224 Valkyeri, .17 WSM and all of the Winchester “short mag” cartridges save the .300

 

[Dave Lively]

I checked on Midway's website and 21 Sharp is priced at $.16 to $.25 per round. Making it significantly less expensive than anything except 22 LR.

If it really did offer better accuracy, less wind drift and less bullet drop due to more aerodynamic bullets I can see it becoming popular enough to make it long term. But looking at the Winchester website bullet drop and velocity loss is about the same as 22 LR with similar bullet weights. No data on wind drift but if drop and velocity are about the same I would expect wind drift to be about the same too.

I doubt reliability would be any better than 22 LR of the same brand since they use the same case and are both rimfire.

Which leaves accuracy. There are accurate 22 rifles but in general my 22 rifles are less accurate than centerfire rifles and can be extremely picky about what sort of ammo they are accurate with. If the new cartridge make it easier to achieve better accuracy, particularly with lead free ammo required for small game hunting in some states, some might find that a compelling reason to buy a rifle chambered for it.

Its never going to replace 22 LR for high volume plinking or low cost shooting though.

 

[Echo40]

The issue with trying to introduce new cartridges into a market with no shortage of time-proven cartridges is that in order for that cartridge to stand a chance it needs to offer something new which no existing cartridge does, yet demand for exists.

Unfortunately, that's a tall order, so the ammo manufacturers commonly introduce cartridges which offer something new, but nothing that anybody was actually asking for, hence the common trend of "Boasting performance between X and Z!" without ever bothering to answer the most important question the consumer is bound to ask; "Why?" Or otherwise; "Boasting performance equal to that of J!" to which the consumer is bound to respond with a resounding; "'Kay, and...?"

Gotta love how they always introduce this cartridges right around the time of an ammo shortage too, as if folks will run out to purchase a firearm chambered in their latest misfit cartridge just because they cannot easily find ammo for their existing firearms.

Sorry guys, but as far as metallic cartridges go, we pretty well have all bases covered at this point, so the best you can do is work on designing new bullets rather than new cartridges.
Or heck, maybe try your hand at inventing something that actually innovative and useful like a viable caseless ammunition? Or perhaps invent a new firearm which uses a new type of ammunition? Maybe then you might actually be successful. Until then, just keep making your tried and true ammunition and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Oh, and if you see a possibility of an old cartridge seeing a resurgence in popularity, then get onboard ahead of the crowd and ride that wave! Keep an on that .357 SIG, it's been getting quite the cult following lately.

 

[DWalt]

I checked on Midway's website and 21 Sharp is priced at $.16 to $.25 per round. Making it significantly less expensive than anything except 22 LR.

If it really did offer better accuracy, less wind drift and less bullet drop due to more aerodynamic bullets I can see it becoming popular enough to make it long term. But looking at the Winchester website bullet drop and velocity loss is about the same as 22 LR with similar bullet weights. No data on wind drift but if drop and velocity are about the same I would expect wind drift to be about the same too.

I doubt reliability would be any better than 22 LR of the same brand since they use the same case and are both rimfire.

Which leaves accuracy. There are accurate 22 rifles but in general my 22 rifles are less accurate than centerfire rifles and can be extremely picky about what sort of ammo they are accurate with. If the new cartridge make it easier to achieve better accuracy, particularly with lead free ammo required for small game hunting in some states, some might find that a compelling reason to buy a rifle chambered for it.

Its never going to replace 22 LR for high volume plinking or low cost shooting though.

About the best that can be expected from any good .22 rifle and typical .22 LR ammunition is grouping performance of 1.5-2 MOA. A high-grade target rifle with match ammunition will drop that to +/- 1 MOA. And what is wrong with that, given that very few shots with a .22 rifle will be taken at distances beyond 50 yards? So what defense is there for preferring a .21 RF rifle using ammunition which costs more than 2X per round vs. regular .22 LR and having no meaningful corresponding performance improvement? Seems like sucker bait to me.

 

[The Norseman]

Lead free

I’ll shoot my 270 Winchester Short Magnum or
300WSM at gophers before I put my money in
something dumb like that.

Anyway, the Best to Winchester and their on
going Endeavors.

 

[AJ]

Maybe if the manufacturers come up with a guided bullet that is guaranteed to hit dead center all the time, then it may be worth investing in a whole new setup.

 

[diyj98]

Felt/thought much the same for years/ then I got a CZ452FS .22 mag [because it's a Mannlicher ]

With a 1-4x20 Leupold scope it will, on a regular basis, due sub-MOA 5 shot groups at 100yds off the bench. Confession, in the field, given the small scope's limitations, most groups are just "under the crosshairs" about 1.5" at 100 yds.

.22mag ammo is much better than the stuff from the 60s.


"New" ammo seems to just be splitting hairs between existing calibers. This seems to fit between the .17hmr and .22 mag.

I consider 1.5" to be a good shooting 22 WMR, despite all the guys on some of the forums with 22 mags that will shoot "1/2" all day long at 100 yards"... My CZ will do that with ammo it likes.

I love the 22 WMR for larger varmints around the house, but the 22LR, 17M2, and 17 HMR will just shoot so much better than the 22 WMR. I've read people saying that it's a lack of quality contral withe 22 WMR, but why is there no such problem with the 17 HMR?

 

[Eddie Southgate]

To me price irrelavent... Just a gimmick.....It WILL NEVER equal the .22 mag.......Bet 3 years from now that won't make the ammunition anymore......Them ya stuck with a gun with no ammo.......IE 5mm remington-Win 17wsm.

Aguila is making 5mm Magnum RF but it was off the market for years before they picked it up. I'd buy a bolt gun for the 5.7 x28 if anyone was making one but I'm gonna pass on the .21 Sharp.

 

[gmiller0737]

Call Me A Old Fuddy Duddy I see zero need for any additional "New Cartridge" I have been well served all these years by stuff that's been on the market a very long time,Not sire I would want another caliber to have to stock up on

 

[6string]

Honestly, this new cartridge idea just ticks me off!!

With all the supply chain issues and inventory shortages that have plagued the firearms industry for the better part of the last decade, this is the LAST THING we need!!

My message to these people:
“C’mon, get your act together for the products you supposedly already offer!
Like PRIMERS!”

I will make it a point to NEVER buy a .21 Sharps!

 

[Dave Lively]

About the best that can be expected from any good .22 rifle and typical .22 LR ammunition is grouping performance of 1.5-2 MOA. A high-grade target rifle with match ammunition will drop that to +/- 1 MOA. And what is wrong with that, given that very few shots with a .22 rifle will be taken at distances beyond 50 yards? So what defense is there for preferring a .21 RF rifle using ammunition which costs more than 2X per round vs. regular .22 LR and having no meaningful corresponding performance improvement? Seems like sucker bait to me.

If an increase in accuracy combined with a flatter trajectory from using lighter lead free bullets made 75 yard shots possible would small game hunters still limit themselves to 50 yards?

I am not a hunter so I really don't know how those that are use their 22 rifles for small game hunting. I would have a hard time reliably hitting a squirrel head size target at 75 yards without using a good rest regardless of how accurate and flat shooting a rifle I was using. But I could see someone who is a better shot, shooting prone or with a good rest, or taking body shots on rabbits could stretch their range.

While I have no use for this round there could be some hunters that find it quite useful. Particularly if the reports of poor accuracy with lead free 22 LR ammo are true and they live where lead ammo is prohibited. Which is a very small group of people, probably not enough to make the round a success