old powder

[minconrevo]

Not mentioned in the posts above if the can of powder in question was factory sealed or not. If not, it is entirely possible that a nicer looking empty can was found by someone working the estate, then filled from another ugly powder container. I am careful to only use for reloading that powder from individuals that I know are VERY particular with their reloading component storage practices.

 

[rwsmith]

I wouldn't give up on it too quick....

...not with just one failure to light.

 

[Kinman]

At the club I hang out at three days a week we have a pretty constant flow of powder guys no longer use or donate. Funds go toward range development. Most of the cans are opened and unless I know the guy I won't touch them. Unopened cans that show no signs of ever being exposed to moisture are a safe bet. Any signs of rust other than lightly on surface and I'm out. Black powder can even get wet and once dried again appears none the worse for wear, getting wet is part of its manufacturing process. I have received 25lb kegs of black powder that had powder clumped into balls, crushed them in my hands and away we went. I had an old buddy that used to take every can of black powder that came his way and run it through granulation screens. He claimed in every can of 2F powder there a bit of 3F and even some 4F. He was one of those guys I refer to as an inveterate tinkerer, he could not leave well enough alone. Get a rifle shooting dead nuts on and change something, always chasing the perfect combination. His motto was "If you haven't tried it, you'll never know." That might be true when it comes to Menudo but some stuff is best left as is.
I read somewhere that some archeologists found a cannon that was sealed before the boat sank, the muzzle had a tompion firmly in place and breech was sealed. They were curious about the air that was inside the barrel and drilled a tiny hole allowing them to retrieve the air that had been inside the cannon since the 1700's. Not only did they get a good sample of dry air but also found that the black powder was still viable and would have been capable of firing the shot that was loaded.
I have never loaded a cartridge with powder that when it failed to fire was due to bad powder. I have learned valuable lessons while learning to reload such as never rush the process. I have gone from freshly cleaned cartridges that had been sonic cleaned to reloaded without enough time to adequately remove any possible moisture, primer failures and contamination from dirty fingers, mostly oils. Primers can go bad, some black powder caps use fulminate of mercury and are the best for reliability. I have had cartridge primers that I can fart louder than, usually trying to save a few bucks like using pre-primed cartridges some old buddy gave me that could go back to the 50's and 60's. I gave up on most of that stuff after having fail to fires and now make sure I am wearing full shields when I punch those live primers out, never had an issue but you never know.

 

[AJ]

At the club I hang out at three days a week we have a pretty constant flow of powder guys no longer use or donate. Funds go toward range development. Most of the cans are opened and unless I know the guy I won't touch them. Unopened cans that show no signs of ever being exposed to moisture are a safe bet. Any signs of rust other than lightly on surface and I'm out. Black powder can even get wet and once dried again appears none the worse for wear, getting wet is part of its manufacturing process. I have received 25lb kegs of black powder that had powder clumped into balls, crushed them in my hands and away we went. I had an old buddy that used to take every can of black powder that came his way and run it through granulation screens. He claimed in every can of 2F powder there a bit of 3F and even some 4F. He was one of those guys I refer to as an inveterate tinkerer, he could not leave well enough alone. Get a rifle shooting dead nuts on and change something, always chasing the perfect combination. His motto was "If you haven't tried it, you'll never know." That might be true when it comes to Menudo but some stuff is best left as is.
I read somewhere that some archeologists found a cannon that was sealed before the boat sank, the muzzle had a tompion firmly in place and breech was sealed. They were curious about the air that was inside the barrel and drilled a tiny hole allowing them to retrieve the air that had been inside the cannon since the 1700's. Not only did they get a good sample of dry air but also found that the black powder was still viable and would have been capable of firing the shot that was loaded.
I have never loaded a cartridge with powder that when it failed to fire was due to bad powder. I have learned valuable lessons while learning to reload such as never rush the process. I have gone from freshly cleaned cartridges that had been sonic cleaned to reloaded without enough time to adequately remove any possible moisture, primer failures and contamination from dirty fingers, mostly oils. Primers can go bad, some black powder caps use fulminate of mercury and are the best for reliability. I have had cartridge primers that I can fart louder than, usually trying to save a few bucks like using pre-primed cartridges some old buddy gave me that could go back to the 50's and 60's. I gave up on most of that stuff after having fail to fires and now make sure I am wearing full shields when I punch those live primers out, never had an issue but you never know.

When I checked into MCAS Cherry Point in 1973 there was a news story about a couple of guys in Greenville, NC. They had found a Civil War cannon ball. For some reason they were drilling a hole in it. It exploded on them and IIRC both were killed. I guess that they thought it was solid shot............

 

[stansdds]

When I checked into MCAS Cherry Point in 1973 there was a news story about a couple of guys in Greenville, NC. They had found a Civil War cannon ball. For some reason they were drilling a hole in it. It exploded on them and IIRC both were killed. I guess that they thought it was solid shot............

Or they thought that with cannon ball being old, the black powder it contained would be old and inert. As the saying goes, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[pantannojack]

When I checked into MCAS Cherry Point in 1973 there was a news story about a couple of guys in Greenville, NC. They had found a Civil War cannon ball. For some reason they were drilling a hole in it. It exploded on them and IIRC both were killed. I guess that they thought it was solid shot............

Tucson, Arizona about 1973,4 some guys found a concrete dynamite shack with a metal door. They proceeded to shoot thru it with armor piercing rifle ammo. It went BOOM.

 

[Skeet 028]

I still have a Civil War musket that was given to my fatherin law(1899-2001) by his grandfather(1826-1919) that I took 8 loads of powder and ball from. It had been used as a "toy" for years. Snapped so many times you could not get a cap on the nipple. I actually shot a deer with that powder in my T-C 50 Hawken...in about 1984 or so. Black doesn't seem to go bad for a very long time. That old at least 100 year old powder still worked. I also shot Black powder made by my father in law. Don't remember where got the ingredients but he mixed it up as a slurry poured it on baking sheets and dried it on the tailgate of his P/U truck. After he broke it up he ground it up in an old coffee grinder a bit at a time....it worked. He shot a deer with a 50 T-C Renegade using that powder.. I just sold a fellow an old square can of Dupont 4759 with 3 pounds that had a 2 digit lot number(47?).......How old ? I don't know..but he shot some already. Powder can last a long time.

 

[chief38]

I have used Bullseye powder that was 35 years old - it worked perfectly fine. Mine was stored in an air conditioned and heated basement which was dry and low humidity. I've also used Titegroup, W231 and H4895 that was pretty old too - never had any issues. It's all in the storage environment and its condition.

When I buy powder I would rather buy it only in 1 pound containers. Yes, I could save a few bucks buying it in an 8 pound container, but I rather have smaller sealed containers until used rather than have a lot of air space in the unused portion in the 8 pound container.

 

[twodog max]

The clue to the problem may be in the hang fires. I have had problems with some powders that were meant for heavy charges hang fire with reduced loads. Never had one totally not ignite. I think that your charge may be to light to get this powder to burn as expected.
The Alliant web site only lists one Blue Dot load for 38+P and that is for a long ago discontinued bullet of 146 grains.
I have used Blue Dot in 357 for years with acceptable results and no problems. Never used a magnum primer. I would perhaps use a more suitable powder in 38 loads.
A couple years ago I had 4 1Lb cans of IMR 4198 that got rusty and smelled bad. It was in the older metal cans. All the same lot. I emailed Hodgdon and never received an answer. I got this powder from an estate. All cans were sealed so I suspect somewhere they had been stored poorly. I dumped it and burned it. It burned OK. I never used it in any loaded ammo.

 

[chief38]

And BTW, old Primers have never been an issue either - again if stored correctly. I've loaded Primers that are from the 1960's and 70's - given to me by a friend - and storage conditions were unknown. No failures to report.

 

[stansdds]

Proper storage is the key to longevity of reloading components and ammo.

 

[AJ]

Guess I have been lucky, have never had a hangfire. FTF, yes, but no hangfires. Been reloading over 500+ years.

 

[ajgunner]

I have loaded and fired rounds with all of these, and most of them within just the past 5 years.
For those that don't know the age---these are all from the 50' and 60's.

One of my best scores was 6 of the Hurcules cans that were in a small metal box that was discovered while cleaning out grandpas stuff. 5 were sealed and the 1 that was open was because the seller was curious of the contents. Also inside the box was a cut down 45lc case with a small handle soldered onto it and for use as a dipper. I checked several common loads for handguns and it was spot on for 2 of the powders. Think I paid $5 each.

 

[diyj98]

Not that long ago, I shot a good bit of WWII dated 45acp. Most of it went boom, but a few didn't. Of course I have no idea what conditions the ammo had been stored in over the last eighty some years.