S&W 32 Winchester Model

[4K2022]

I’ve been reading some great information about the Very early 02s & 05s on different threads lately. Both 32-20s & 38s.
One post in particular has a page from a catalog showing both Rd & Sq Butt revolvers,, BUT I cannot see a 5th screw.

IF I’ve seen a 4 screw Square Butt ,, I don’t remember!!

I enjoy this hobby and I’ve learned there’s many many rabbit holes to explore. My focus is the changes inside the early “first few years, of 32-20s. Why? Because the serial numbers.

The 4 pictured are #s less than 1000 to 20, 30 and 40 000

 

[4K2022]

This one is in the 10,000 range,, One of my favorites!!

LOOK AT THAT ultra high luxurious bluing on this one!!
Original cylinder looks great inside,,, but it sure is blue.
The inside of the barrel looks like,,, 1943, put on a shelf and then sent to me! Barrel # to the Original serial which has a “star. Also the barrel flat is marked with? B in diamond

Second model with a beefier frame upgrade, is/was what makes this barrel on this gun ‘possible (as I understand). Pretty awesome to me, and my hobby

 

[Alk8944]

Added frame. barrel and L Frame comments

"I cannot see a 5th screw." That is because the 5th screw is in the front of the trigger-guard. It is difficult, if not impossible, to see in most photos taken directly from either side, even if you know what to look for.

4K2022, That gun has been re-finished, no question about it. I own many S&Ws, including several .32-20s from 1905 to the end of production in 1929 or 1930. The service date stamp in the third photo is 3-44, March 1944, likely the date the gun was re-finished by the factory. The "B" in a diamond indicates the finish as originally issued was blue.

The frame of the 1902 1st Change was not "beefed up", the diameter of the barrel hole was slightly enlarged to accommodate the increased diameter of the barrel shank. This was enlarged to strengthen the portion of the barrel shank exposed inside the frame window. This was sort of like much later changes creating the L Frame models, and for the same reason.

Does the number stamped in the rt. stock match the SN on the butt? I would wonder about the stamped number since when the gun was produced the practice on the hard rubber stocks was to scratch the SN on the rt. stock. With wood stocks the SN was written in pencil. Stamping of the SN on the stocks wasn't adopted until the mid 1930s as I recall. In 1944 S&W was still using the hard rubber or wood stocks on round butt guns. I have no idea what determined which went on a particular gun. Maybe Jack, jp@ak, can shed some light on this. Possibly the stocks were replaced when the gun was re-finished.

 

[4K2022]

I stole the picture!
Although I cannot see the 5th screw, I do see THESE 2 guns are not equipped with rebound slides. I understand the 5th screw came first. Thanks for your knowledgeable input

 

[Alk8944]

I stole the picture!
Although I cannot see the 5th screw, I do see THESE 2 guns are not equipped with rebound slides. I understand the 5th screw came first. Thanks for your knowledgeable input

Actually the early guns were 4 screw, the 5th trigger-guard screw came later along with the rebound slide. The cylinder stop spring was inside the cylinder stop itself. The trigger-guard screw was part of several changes to the early lock work. That screw retains the coil spring and plunger that drives the cylinder stop as later guns do.

The rebound in the early was a lever driven by a flat spring that is under the mainspring. The rebound slide came several years later. All these changes occurred with the Model 1905 1st Change, which resulted in lock work very similar to current production Hand Ejector models of all calibers.

 

[4K2022]

Butt & Barrel flat

 

[4K2022]

Actually the early guns were 4 screw, the 5th trigger-guard screw came later along with the rebound slide. The cylinder stop spring was inside the cylinder stop itself. The trigger-guard screw was part of several changes to the early lock work. That screw retains the coil spring and plunger that drives the cylinder stop as later guns do.

The rebound in the early was a lever driven by a flat spring that is under the mainspring. The rebound slide came several years later. All these changes occurred with the Model 1905 1st Change, which resulted in lock work very similar to current production Hand Ejector models of all calibers.

I understand
My comment about the 5th screw being first was the implementation of the cylinder stop ,, before the rebound slide.

 

[glowe]

. . .
IF I’ve seen a 4 screw Square Butt ,, I don’t remember!! . . .

Yes, there were square-butt pre-Model 1905 guns. In 38 they ran from 58,000 to 62450. Roy detailed that change for the 38s, but not for the 32 Winchesters. The end of the pre-Model 1905 square-butt 32 guns is 18,125 and by observation and calculation, the start was around 16,800. That leads to the belief that 4 screw square-butt 32 Winchesters were a rare bird. Add to that that very few were targets and you have something that many collectors have never seen, a 4 screw, square-butt Target in either caliber. I was lucky to find 2 in 38, but have not found any in 32 Winchester for sale.

 

[bruce5781]

5" Pre-5 screw 4 screw Target 38Spl. In the 58K serial range.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

 

[4K2022]

Yes, there were square-butt pre-Model 1905 guns. In 38 they ran from 58,000 to 62450. Roy detailed that change for the 38s, but not for the 32 Winchesters. The end of the pre-Model 1905 square-butt 32 guns is 18,125 and by observation and calculation, the start was around 16,800. That leads to the belief that 4 screw square-butt 32 Winchesters were a rare bird. Add to that that very few were targets and you have something that many collectors have never seen, a 4 screw, square-butt Target in either caliber. I was lucky to find 2 in 38, but have not found any in 32 Winchester for sale.

Thank you
Those are just what I needed to see!!
Targets , nonetheless! What an incredible pair.

In my first post I mentioned serial numbers for a “reason I’ve focused on 32-20s. The changes happen very quickly as you pointed out in another thread (post #4,, I thought it was great). The low 5 digit range of the 32 Winchester serial numbers doesn’t leave much wiggle room between changes as you make Very clear.

,,,”but have not found any in 32 Winchester for sale.” I have to wonder,,, if you found any NOT for sale?

But with a little luck

 

[glowe]

. . . have not found any in 32 Winchester for sale.” I have to wonder,,, if you found any NOT for sale?

But with a little luck

I have seen less than half-dozen 32 Winchester square-butts in that serial number range and only one Target. Am working on a commentary, maybe for the SWCA Journal, about early 32 Winchester and 38 Military Target S&Ws and have a database on the 38s. The list contains information from the Forum members and the old SWCA database. Forum members supplied me with serial numbers of 40 Targets in 38 Special between 58,000 and 62,450.

Roughly, just over 50% of the Model 1902, 1st Change revolvers were square-butts, with all being at the end of the models serial numbers. Working with the numbers and considering survival rates, it can be stated with some confidence that there are around 150 Square-butt Target, 4 screw 38s in the serial number range 58,000 to 62,450 left out there now. We would be lucky to see 50 Square-butt Target, 4 screw 32 Winchesters in the serial number range 16,800 to 18,125 are are in existence today.