38 special schofield freak accident

[gwpercle]

It's called ... "Learning the Hard Way !"
we have all had our lesson's .. every one of us !
Learn from it and do whatever it takes to correct the situation .
I use "Scoops" to dispense powder ... because it is the safest for me !
I get to watch the powder charge three different times before the bullet gets seated ... and scooping is accurate .

No awards given for speed handloading ... my advice is get all anal and OCD about getting one charge of powder in the case ...
To me it is The most important part of the process !

Safe Hand Loading beats Fast Handloading ... Seven Ways to Sunday !

Keep On Keeping On and Load Safe !
Gary

 

[WR Moore]

Looking at this from another angle after reading following posts, How many sources do you have for your loading data? I mention this for several reasons.

I once belonged to a board where one of the members was a barrel making tech. Pressure test barrels were one of their primary products and had exacting specs. Minimum chamber, bore and groove dimensions to provide worst possible pressure situation. Or, to whatever specs were required-like those in STANAG 4090 for 9 mm NATO. The differences can be important. So, multiple independent data sources are a really good idea.

I've got Winchester load data from back in the last century that's most optimistic. I quickly learned the pistol data was useless. OTOH, I've never been able to get Alliants rifle data velocities, but I can duplicate factory ammo with that data.

The OP isn't the first and is likely not the last to have that issue. The S&W factory had a sectioned barrel from an M&P .38 with 7 bullets lodged in the barrel. The last one locked the cylinder. There was a picture of a Sig product with a bullet peeking out the muzzle. Finally, someone once brought me a low end .22 rifle with a bullet stuck in the barrel. After trying various things I used a 3/16 in stainless steel rod and a heavy hammer. After the bullet hit the floor I was celebrating until I realized the rod was still in the barrel. 7 bullets came out. No visible damage, no impact on "accuracy".

Also, a ringed barrel isn't necessarily ruined. Back when the HK Mark 23 Mod 0 offensive handgun system was being tested, one of the tests was to shoot a lodged 230 gr FMJ out of the bore. HK provided spare barrels for those guns. None were needed.

 

[DWalt]

Also, a ringed barrel isn't necessarily ruined. Back when the HK Mark 23 Mod 0 offensive handgun system was being tested, one of the tests was to shoot a lodged 230 gr FMJ out of the bore. HK provided spare barrels for those guns. None were needed.

Back in my teens I managed to plug the muzzle of my .22 rifle with mud, which was not known at the time. Firing it produced a noticeable but not large bulge in the barrel about 2” behind the muzzle. It made no difference in its shooting performance.

I once performed a series of in-bore collision tests using an M9 pistol with bullets lodged in the bore at different distances back from the muzzle. I had a lot of old M9 barrels and slides to work with. No barrel ruptures or gun damage, but there were some barrel bulges produced in instances where the bullets were placed closer to the muzzle.That was done about 15 years ago, I may still have my test report somewhere.

 

[glowe]

. . . And while I’m on my soapbox, if you had your Garmin Xero along, it would have told you that nothing came out of the barrel when the hammer dropped. For all you tightwads that won’t spend $600 on a Garmin Xero, you deserve what you got . . .

I will agree with the sentiment, but certainly not with the way you delivered it!!

You do not need to spend $600 for the top of the line chronograph, but I believe everyone needs to own one. Any chronograph with a remote reader will let you know how your loads are performing, especially when loading a new recipe.

On another topic, I had a single occurrence of a bulged barrel and think it is worth mentioning. Shooting HBWC ammo and watching the target. Shot six rounds with six holes in the target. Loaded another six and the first shot did not leave the barrel. Checked to find the base skirt of the bullet stuck in the barrel ahead of the next bullet shot. Loads were fired at under 800 fps and, as a result, will never load HBWC ammo again. WCs or SWC are just fine and no chance of the bullet coming apart.

 

[lougotzzz]

I called John Taylor and I am shipping out the barrel this weekend. He has a backlog but hopefully he can clear the barrel.

 

[dillonhelp]

Here are a few videos on things to check on the Square Deal B.
A load of about 1 1/2 grains of fast burning powder will provide enough gas to push the bullet out of the barrel.
[ame]https://vimeo.com/508637803[/ame]
[ame]https://vimeo.com/508163492[/ame]

 

[dillonhelp]

Product Videos| Square Deal B

 

[lougotzzz]

I don’t think it was the press.i have been thinking a lot why and how this happened. The press did jump out of time and snap while advancing a few times in the past.
I think this was my bullet choice and powder charge choice.I think I was shooting to heavy bullet at a light charge with a tight bore from Uberti. Taylor’s and co told me they make these bores on the tight side. I use to use this load with lead bullets but switched to plated. I mostly loaded 357 mild loads with clays but just recently acquired designated sw revolver in 38 sp. model 14 and model 15. so I wanted to use the same 158 gr bullet.
My conclusion is. Use lighter bullets in 38 sp. I finished the last of my clays ( 18.99 price tag lol )and use my w231/HP 38. Use a more potent load. I don’t think it was the press it has served me well for a year now with 7-10 k rounds.
I will pull the 88 I have left before I use the sq deal b again just to see if it was consistent.


All your help has been a great help for me to get to the bottom of this as best as I could.

ETA Taylor’s told me a guy did this with a mild load in 45 colt. He stacked 10 or so in a 7inch bbl.

 

[DWalt]

Here are a few videos on things to check on the Square Deal B.
A load of about 1 1/2 grains of fast burning powder will provide enough gas to push the bullet out of the barrel.

I have done something similar to that on several occasions. An old trick to blow out a stuck bullet in a rifle barrel is to pull the bullet from a loaded cartridge then dump out about half the propellant. Put the primed case with a half load in the chamber and fire it. It does work and does not damage the barrel in any way.

 

[Sevens]

I think this was my bullet choice and powder charge choice.I think I was shooting to heavy bullet at a light charge with a tight bore from Uberti. Taylor’s and co told me they make these bores on the tight side. I use to use this load with lead bullets but switched to plated. I mostly loaded 357 mild loads with clays but just recently acquired designated sw revolver in 38 sp. model 14 and model 15. so I wanted to use the same 158 gr bullet.
My conclusion is. Use lighter bullets in 38 sp. I finished the last of my clays ( 18.99 price tag lol )and use my w231/HP 38. Use a more potent load. I don’t think it was the press it has served me well for a year now with 7-10 k rounds.

I partially agree with you — and I feel pretty strongly about my position, based on my own experience over 3.5 decades and a cataloged 200,000+ rounds loaded.

I would -NOT- go to a lighter bullet. What you need is more pressure, not less pressure. If the charge weight is “light”, a lighter bullet is less pressure and a heavier bullet is more pressure.

In my experience, taking a great load for lead bullets and inserting a plated bullet is asking for trouble. And it is the most troublesome in any/every REVOLVER, and that is due to the flash gap.

The space between the cylinder and the barrel is a bleed valve for much-needed pressure. Plated bullets absolutely resist traveling down the bore and if the load is light, if the bullet slows down, that critical pressure we already don’t have enough of will find the path of least resistance to escape — and that will be the flash gap.

I much, much prefer 158 grain bullets in my general .38 Special loads. (I also load a lot of Wadcutters for the Model 52 and also for custom PPC revolvers.)

I think your load was too light, the bullet did not want to leave the bore and the pressure that MIGHT have done the work escaped when it was most needed.

Going forward, I would run these bullets harder, and I would NEVER take a great cast or swaged lead bullet load and use it with a plated or jacketed bullet.

 

[SlamFire]

Squibs happen. I had one in a 2700 Bullseye Match in a Les Baer Wadcutter, 45 ACP. Had to be no powder in the case. I have seen several others. The shooter does not realize he has had a squib, the person behind him does. For whatever reason, I thought my pistol put a round on the 50 yard target, but it had not. Felt like a regular round, but could not.

Called Les Baer, the lady I talked to said they frequently received 1911's that had a bullet lodged in the barrel. It cost me $650 to have the pistol repaired. Les Baer replaced a lot of parts. The pistol leaves in new condition, and after having placed ten rounds in two inches at 50 yards.

With an autopistol, if you ever jack an empty out of the chamber, stop right there, drop the magazine, clear the pistol. And then drop a rod down the muzzle. Might be a surprise half way down the tube.

Never had a bullet lodge in the barrel with a revolver, but since a squib half way down the tube won't prevent the cylinder from turning, the shooter could fill the barrel with bullets. Not that the third, fourth, fifth, or sixth bullet makes any difference, the barrel was ruined when the second bullet hit the first.

Hey it happens. Nothing is perfect, and errors happen to all of us, one of the problems of being human. Don't over think it, see what you can do to reduce errors in your reloading process.

 

[lougotzzz]

Sevens
Thanks for the info. I was talking about a brand new load with a lighter projectile not a lighter projectile with the same charge.

 

[lougotzzz]

Slam fire
I spoke to cimmeron as well to see if I can get a bbl they said they have seen this too.
They will not sell a bbl to a person with a Taylor’s gun. They said their bbl are for their guns only because the bbl is marked with the importers name.

I hope John Taylor can get the projectiles out but if not I have a bbl on order from Taylor’s and co.

 

[Sevens]

Sevens
Thanks for the info. I was talking about a brand new load with a lighter projectile not a lighter projectile with the same charge.

Sure — however you did say that this was a well-used and much loved load, but one where you simply substituted a plated bullet where before you had been using a lead bullet.

Aside from any of that, I still choose to avoid 125 grain bullets in .38 Special and I much prefer a 158. I often load a plated 158, and I will do it with 3.5 or 3.6 grains of Bullseye.

 

[lougotzzz]

I don’t have bullseye. I will work up a new load with w231. I am now out of clays and I think it is discontinued now. Thanks

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... in .38 Special and I much prefer a 158. I often load a plated 158, and I will do it with 3.5 or 3.6 grains of Bullseye.

In .38 Special 3.5 grains of Bullseye is great with a 158 grain LSWC. But with a plated bullet I am thinking squib in progress. JMHO.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I will work up a new load with w231.

With .38 Special and W231 I use lead bullets. If you have to use plated bullets go with a .38 Special +P recipe.

 

[Guevera]

Not me and not my Colt revolver, but still scary. I think this one became a paperweight in a matter of seconds. And thirds. And fourths, maybe:

 

[taz666]

Uuuuuuufta

 

[murphydog]

Not me and not my Colt revolver, but still scary. I think this one became a paperweight in a matter of seconds. And thirds. And fourths, maybe:

You'd think low recoil, or the change in the sight picture, might have been a clue?

A new barrel and it would probably be good to go. Presuming the top strap and cylinder were still in one piece.