LEO Revolver Carry?

[BB57]

That's a national average....agencies that spend more time/money on training do better.

The best performing police department I have seen data wise is Baltimore with a hit percentage around 50 percent.

50 percent of officer involved shoots occur at 5 yards or less, 70 percent at 8 yards or less, and 75 percent at 10 yards or less. Beyond 7 yards accuracy plummets.

But as far as rounds fired, it's complicated.

There was an increase of rounds fired per officer per engagement from around 3.5 to 4 over the period where the switch from revolvers to semi auto pistols occurred.

Officers on average shoot more when more officers are present. The average shots fired per officer per engagement increase with the number of officers present. However while multiple officers are present at 75 percent of of officer involved shoots, multiple officers only fire in about 33 percent of officer involved shoots.

However in a subset of those multiple officer involved shoots there's a group shoot effect where officers start shooting and keep shooting because other officers are shooting. That leads to ridiculous numbers of rounds being fired at a single suspect who went down after the first few rounds.

Despite those outliers, the data indicates 75 percent of officer involved shoots are concluded with 6 shots or less. That rises to 80% with 7 rounds or less. Beyond that it's unclear whether or not the time required to reload a revolver proficiently with a speed loader would make a difference. 91% are resolved in less than 12 rounds. Only 3.8 percent require 15 rounds or more.

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Despite all the efforts beginning in the Reagan era who hype threats against officers, a factor in the adoption of semi auto pistols in the US, there's a reasonable argument that could be made that with improved training (including better open hand skills, better de-escalation skills, etc), a revolver would still be sufficient for police officer use, particularly a 7 shot revolver in .357 like a 686+.

 

[Doug M.]

Was at National Archives in D.C. earlier this year. Security were all carrying revolvers. When I asked about it, was told they switched because, "Automatics made visitors nervous." I don't get it either, but that's what they said.

*
If true, that is more than ample cause to fire the management involved in that decision. My real opinion would get me enough points to ban half the members.
Another consideration is the difficulty in finding security holsters for revolvers; not enough market, so they are hard to find. In today's world, I would be hesitant to allow anything less than a level 3 holster. (I still have a Safariland 070 for an N frame - good luck finding one for any revolver now.)
Marksmanship training is not what it was. Too many agencies are concerned about inane garbage and so their training focuses on the wrong stuff. We can blame the moonbats at places like PERF for some of that.

 

[WCCPHD]

My agency transitioned from revolvers in 1987 when we were issued the Beretta 92F. We were still allowed to qualify and carry revolvers up until I retired in 2009. Don't know if they still allow them now or not.

I often carried my Model 342ti as my primary duty weapon up to retirement, but I was in HQ mostly working behind a desk.

 

[Bill In Texas]

I'll bet it was the M28 he was issued as a Trooper!

If I was a bad guy, I'd be more concerned about the Coposaurus Rex carrying a wheelgun than the latest Wondernine...because the cop with a wheelgun most likely knows that weapon and will make every shot count.

VERY VERY few wheelguns in service around here anymore. Harris County Sheriff still has them on the approved list but most cops I see have SIG's, Glocks, or S&W M&P's these days.

You're probably right. I knew that it was one or the other, but I didn't get a good enough look to tell. His partner was carrying a Colt 1911. This was in Nacogdoches.

 

[31FordA]

I intend no disapproval of this interesting discussion of technological change by this comment: I wonder whether automobile aficionados/hobbyists ever had discussions about police departments that hadn't gone over to fuel-injection.

Maybe not about fuel injection, but get a group of cops and ask about the demise of the police CAR and its replacement by the police SUV. You'll find lots of guys who mourn the loss of the Ford Crown Victoria. If Ford brought the Vic back there would be a huge market. Now the Ford Taurus and Dodge Charger are no more all we have are SUV's. You can get a good argument about police TRUCKS, some guys hate them with a passion, some guys like them. I have a Ford Explorer unmarked police package, and I like it, but I would go back to the Vic in a heart beat. One of my guys tells me I'll have to pry his Charger from his cold dead, or retired, hands. He hates the idea of a SUV.

 

[K.38]

An officer I know carried a SAA every now and again. He came into the gun shop I worked at and had the SAA on him in uniform. I did a double take and asked him about it. Our PD allowed any carry as long as you could qualify with it. He carried it usually only off duty when he was up in the mountains on horse back. If he got called in he didn't want to go all the way home to get his normal duty firearm so the chief let him carry it. He usually never carried it but every now and again you would see him around town with the SAA. Since covid and legalizing dope the little town went from Mayberry to a mess. I retired and moved out of state so they may not be able to carry what they want any longer.

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

As of 2020 a buddy of mine I knew from Texas DOC said their Transport Officers carriee a S&W 686. I also knew of a gal from California DOC that had carried a 686.

As I recall, the guy from Texas (who sometimes hangs out around here) made it sound like more of a matter of neglect and a lack of quality training. The gal from California seemed to indicate they took firearms training much more seriously.

I've never seen an LEO carry a revolver in Alaska. I know AK DOC has some nice options, to include 1911s, but no revolvers. I was friends with the last Anchorage cop to give up his revolver, though I can't remember the date. He had carried a S&W Model 27. He was always passionate about them. Smaller frames, unobtainium, etc. Were clearly intended to be carried by lesser men. I get a feeling it would have been a real bad idea to make him draw it.

I "get" the department's perspective, but I still find the situation unfortunate.

 

[max503]

The cops/guards at the Robert A. Young Federal Building in downtown St. Louis all carry revolvers. They might be private security guards. I'm not certain.
At least they did back in 2021 which was the last time I was down there.

 

[BB57]

Was at National Archives in D.C. earlier this year. Security were all carrying revolvers. When I asked about it, was told they switched because, "Automatics made visitors nervous." I don't get it either, but that's what they said.

When I worked in DC, security guards for the building carried revolvers. They worked for a contractor. They had carried Glocks before but one of them had a negligent discharge in one of bathroom stalls, and the revolvers made an appearance soon after.

LEOs for the most part are not gun people and while in general many like to regard themselves as trained firearms experts, 90 plus percent of them are not.

It goes a step lower with the average security guard. That's doubly true in DC where there's almost no opportunity to grow up shooting, etc. Unless of course you live in south east DC where shooting is a nightly activity for a fair percentage of the residents.

 

[S-W4EVER]

Maybe not about fuel injection, but get a group of cops and ask about the demise of the police CAR and its replacement by the police SUV. You'll find lots of guys who mourn the loss of the Ford Crown Victoria. If Ford brought the Vic back there would be a huge market. Now the Ford Taurus and Dodge Charger are no more all we have are SUV's. You can get a good argument about police TRUCKS, some guys hate them with a passion, some guys like them. I have a Ford Explorer unmarked police package, and I like it, but I would go back to the Vic in a heart beat. One of my guys tells me I'll have to pry his Charger from his cold dead, or retired, hands. He hates the idea of a SUV.

I'm in that group, I started making plans to retire for good when the PD retired the last CVPI. I can't stand those new Ford "Police Interceptors" (Exploders) and they didn't buy any Charger Pursuits. Color me gone...

 

[Buford57]

If there is any validity to the old adage that we fight the way we train, Chicago PDs training consists entirely of mag dumps.

Seriously, the previous statement about revolvers not being capable of fast enough reloads to qualify to a "fighting standard" makes me wonder how many shots are fired in each stage of a current qualification course? As I recall we would "fire 2, load 2, fire 4, load 4 fire 6, load 6 fire 6" at the shortest distance (7 or 10 yards) and strings of multiples of 6 beyond that. Of course once speed loaders became standard issue the partial reloads ended.

 

[biku324]

Finally found what I believe to be the last NMSP revolver incident in September 2003. Lt. Don Day killed a wanted felon at the Raton MVD office with his issued 357 (he declined transition to semi-autos). The 9mm-armed Texas perp fired 13 rounds, hitting Don on his vest once and once in each leg. As memory serves, Don fired 2 or 3 rounds, killing the attacker on the spot.

Lieutenant Don Day - Inside Safariland

 

[max503]

Sorry if I'm off-topic but when you renew a CC permit here in Illinois you have to re-qualify.
I was in a big class. There was only one other person shooting a revolver. Some old(er than me) guy who carried a NAA mini-revolver.
So out of the 40-ish people there, I was the only revolver shooter.

 

[RobertK3026]

My last trip through Midway Airport in Chicago I seen some officers carrying S&W model 66's.
Officers hired before 1996 are allowed to carry revolvers if they want to.

 

[BAM-BAM]

IMHO Fast misses don't count for much!
Been seeing more officers [on TV] carrying 3 or 4 spare Glock mags.
If the SHTF there's a reason for Shotguns and ARs in the front seat!

Our local Dept has it's own range which gets lots of use.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

If the SHTF there's a reason for Shotguns and ARs in the front seat!

Our local Dept has it's own range which gets lots of use.

This was thirty years ago...when I attended S&W Armorers School there was a NM State Trooper (Highway Patrol...don't remember their title) who said he carried a 1911 on his hip...and between the seats and locked to the dash were a 12-gauge shotgun and an AR-15. He said he had to be prepared since on a good day his closest backup might be 75 miles away.

 

[biku324]

This was thirty years ago...when I attended S&W Armorers School there was a NM State Trooper (Highway Patrol...don't remember their title) who said he carried a 1911 on his hip...and between the seats and locked to the dash were a 12-gauge shotgun and an AR-15. He said he had to be prepared since on a good day his closest backup might be 75 miles away.

Completely true. And often no radio nor cell coverage anyway.

 

[biku324]

Sorry if I'm off-topic but when you renew a CC permit here in Illinois you have to re-qualify.
I was in a big class. There was only one other person shooting a revolver. Some old(er than me) guy who carried a NAA mini-revolver.
So out of the 40-ish people there, I was the only revolver shooter.

In NM you have qualify with each type of weapon you intend to carry - the rule is you qualify with the largest caliber you intend to carry, so I use a Smith Shield in 45 ACP for the semi-auto course of fire and a 625-8 for revolver. In that way I am covered no matter what I carry.

 

[wgg]

I recently qualified with a S&W 4" 28. I asked the guy next to me what year he was born. His reply 1990. I showed him my HKS speedloaders and told him I got these when I went to the academy in 1988. I have become 1 of the old farts. Merry Christmas to all and God Bless.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

In moving traffic stops in Chile and Argentina I saw a mix of Glocks, 1911's and what looked like Model 28's At least 1/4, maybe 1/3 revolvers. I would expect that they are owned by agency and issued as needed as I saw young officers with revolvers.

While traveling in foreign countries, I am never dumb enough to speak with an LEO about a firearm. No reason to draw attention to myself.

I am surprise to see revolvers.