Finally said the hell with it, on the BG2.0...

[halfmoonclip]

Using a fully loaded, 10 round magazine for a spare, with the BG2.0.
It's not a problem, charging the pistol, with an open slide and a 10 round magazine.
A reload, against a closed slide, is another matter. Realize that the magazines can be really slammed in there. But, in case of an unexpected visit to the two way range, I'm doubtful of a successful tactical reload.
I've downloaded the spare mag by one.

Have been experimenting with one spring and follower. Clipping a coil just made the follower motion feel lazy. Taking a millimeter off the bottom of the follower does seem to help, and I may experiment further with that.
In the mean time, 9 it is, in the spare mag.
Moon

 

[Cheyenne WYO]

If you are pulling a tactical reload during the middle of a gunfight, you are (1) fortunate and (2) probably have enough gross motor skills and adrenaline dump to slam a 10 round magazine into the gun. But, I would rather have 9 plus the 1 in the chamber than to perform surgery on springs. I tend to run with a full backup magazine and no spring surgery. Besides, most people don't realize they are empty until slide lock.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Cheyenne WA, I'm surely overthinking things.
But I never drive my car like I stole it, and treat guns the same way. FORCING the mag in is making the machinery do things it doesn't want to do. And, despite some experiments, I'm not sure of function, with a full mag up against the slide.
So, barring further developments, 9 it is.
Moon

 

[smoothshooter]

If you are pulling a tactical reload during the middle of a gunfight, you are (1) fortunate and (2) probably have enough gross motor skills and adrenaline dump to slam a 10 round magazine into the gun. But, I would rather have 9 plus the 1 in the chamber than to perform surgery in springs. I tend to run with a full backup magazine and no spring surgery. Besides, most people don't realize they are empty until slide lock.

I don’t understand people’s fear of cautiously trimming magazine springs. There is no justification whatever for the magazines on many of the gun designs created over the last few decades being so difficult to load. I will not put up with that ****. When the use of a magazine loading tool is a requirement and not just a convenience, something is wrong with that design. I trimmed a coil off of a magazine for my BG 2. Helped some. May take off another coil after some more test firing.
When I get the spring tension where I want without malfunctions I will trim my other two magazine springs.
I must say those BG springs are the hardest I have ever encountered. A medium-to-large sized pair of dykes (side cutters) will not faze them. I had to use a Dremel with a small cutting wheel to cut through the coil wire.

 

[GnarlsR2]

I don’t understand people’s fear of cautiously trimming magazine springs. There is no justification whatever for the magazines on many of the gun designs created over the last few decades being so difficult to load. I will not put up with that ****. When the use of a magazine loading tool is a requirement and not just a convenience, something is wrong with that design. I trimmed a coil off of a magazine for my BG 2. Helped some. May take off another coil after some more test firing.
When I get the spring tension where I want without malfunctions I will trim my other two magazine springs.
I must say those BG springs are the hardest I have ever encountered. A medium-to-large sized pair of dykes (side cutters) will not faze them. I had to use a Dremel with a small cutting wheel to cut through the coil wire.

I totally agree with this.

I'm a long ways from a gunsmith or armorer, but I'm very handy and not afraid to try something. I admit I was a little concerned about the results of my "gunsmithing". However, I knew that S&W was not going to fix my new BG2.

I still cannot get a full mag loaded in my 10 or 12 with an UPlula. I run them 1 round short. The only "malfunction" I've had during a range visit was popping a 12-round mag with only 11 into a closed slide, then sling-shotting the slide that did not go to battery.

Regarding modifying the mag springs, I'm hoping that MagGuts will release a kit for the BG2 10 and 12 round mags.

Because of poorly designed guide rods springs, and after receiving a replacement from S&W that was the same part, I took the spring off the guide rod, and with Dremel tool cut-off wheel removed about 3/8" the bent tip of the spring at the front of guide rod cap, and removed about 3/8" off the bottom end of the spring. That made a noticeable difference in the force required to rack the slide, and fixed the issue of the guide rod NOT seating into the slide collar. I figured if my "gunsmithing" screwed something up, I still have a brand new replacement that still did not fix the bad design of the spring. I have photos.

 

[GnarlsR2]

If you are pulling a tactical reload during the middle of a gunfight, you are (1) fortunate and (2) probably have enough gross motor skills and adrenaline dump to slam a 10 round magazine into the gun. But, I would rather have 9 plus the 1 in the chamber than to perform surgery in springs. I tend to run with a full backup magazine and no spring surgery. Besides, most people don't realize they are empty until slide lock.

My choice of the BG2 is to pocket carry, and not carry a backup mag.

There is no reason that a spec’d 10-round mag from the OEM cannot be fully loaded.

If the amount pressure slamming in a fully loaded 10-round mag into a defense handgun, that commonly on occasion does NOT lock the slide after the last round, causes the failure of a sling-shotted attempt to chamber a round, THAT could be catastrophic failure in a tactical defense move in my opinion, and is unacceptable.

 

[LVSteve]

If you are pulling a tactical reload during the middle of a gunfight, you are (1) fortunate and (2) probably have enough gross motor skills and adrenaline dump to slam a 10 round magazine into the gun. But, I would rather have 9 plus the 1 in the chamber than to perform surgery in springs. I tend to run with a full backup magazine and no spring surgery. Besides, most people don't realize they are empty until slide lock.

I'd be interested to know if there are any documented cases of a tactical reload in a civilian shooting.

 

[GnarlsR2]

I'd be interested to know if there are any documented cases of a tactical reload in a civilian shooting.

Probably not with a BG2.

 

[Cheyenne WYO]

I still cannot get a full mag loaded in my 10 or 12 with an UPlula. I run them 1 round short. The only "malfunction" I've had during a range visit was popping a 12-round mag with only 11 into a closed slide, then sling-shotting the slide that did not go to battery.
Because of poorly designed guide rods springs, and after receiving a replacement from S&W that was the same part, I took the spring off the guide rod, and with Dremel tool cut-off wheel removed about 3/8" the bent tip of the spring at the front of guide rod cap, and removed about 3/8" off the bottom end of the spring. That made a noticeable difference in the force required to rack the slide, and fixed the issue of the guide rod NOT seating into the slide collar. I figured if my "gunsmithing" screwed something up, I still have a brand new replacement that still did not fix the bad design of the spring. I have photos.

I have a question. Did the failure to go into battery occur after you cut off some of the recoil spring? In any event, you raised an interesting point, and I will be sure to test it out in my gun to see if I have an issue. So, thanks for that!

 

[Beju]

I'd be interested to know if there are any documented cases of a tactical reload in a civilian shooting.

IIRC, out of the thousands of videos reviewed by John Correia of Active Self Protection, he's seen something like 3 instances of reloads being done in non-duty shootings.

 

[GnarlsR2]

I have a question. Did the failure to go into battery occur after you cut off some of the recoil spring? In any event, you raised an interesting point, and I will be sure to test it out in my gun to see if I have an issue. So, thanks for that!

The failure to chamber a round was during my first range day with the BG2, and I had only cleaned and lubed the gun and the mags out of the box.

 

[kbm6893]

When I hear the words “tactical reload” I always get a chuckle. If you have the ability to even think about reloading in the middle of a gunfight, and reloading a gun that isn’t even empty, and believe you won’t fumble that mag change, is laughable. I worked with a cop who got in an on duty shooting. He emptied his magazine at the bad guy and hit him three or four times. When I got there, he was covering the wounded bad guy with his gun empty and slide locked back. He was in shock and had no idea. Thinking anybody else other than somebody supremely trained, would do any different is fantasy.

And clipping magazine springs are a bad idea. Unless you think you know more than a fleet of engineers who designed the gun. The springs are so tight because since the Sig 365, it’s all about number of rounds and smallest size gun.

 

[GnarlsR2]

I tend to agree with those comments.

The word tactical is very often used in just about everything to do with firearms and other weapons. Military tactical is obvious.

The use of tactical with civilian gun owners simply means planning or taking actions to accomplish a specific purpose with an immediate end in view. Reloading a firearm under duress is certainly a tactical move.

An average civilian without military, LE, EMT, Fire, or first responder training is most likely only lightly trained in any type of real-world intense emergency or self-defense situation.

For the highly trained, it is well documented, as you described, that the human mind and body do not always perform as trained.

Meeting at the indoor range with my range buddies, with every eye-candy goody I could wish for, friendly people, standing at a lane for 50 minutes in an air conditioned room, my high-tech ear muffs and eye protection on, my Craftsman range bag at my feet filled with my favorite just-in-case stuff, joking and laughing with my range buddies, shooting at a paper splatter target at 7 yards, with my highly fondled SD handgun, is about as far away from the extremely unlikely real SD event that I practice for as I can get. BUT… it’s a lot of fun!

On modifying magazines, or any other “gunsmithing” actions, which is up to the individual and their experiences. And NO… so far over the past 4 years of being very active in my hobby, having immediately discovered that my Body Guard 2.0, manufactured by a legendary firearm company, is an extreme disappointment, I don’t trust the “fleet of engineers who designed the gun.”

My Sig Sauer P365 Micro, out of the box, at about 1,000 rounds, has never had a malfunction with 15 different style of ammo.

 

[dsk]

And clipping magazine springs are a bad idea. Unless you think you know more than a fleet of engineers who designed the gun. The springs are so tight because since the Sig 365, it’s all about number of rounds and smallest size gun.

Two things to consider. One, these small "pocket rockets" have such a fast cyclic rate that stiff mag springs are necessary to enable the follower to keep up with the slide. And two, when it comes to 10-round mags the manufacturers have to be careful that an 11th round can't be squeezed in or they'll get the CA or WA attorney generals on their azz.

 

[seldon14]

Initial range trip I used a loader to get the last round in. Since then, I have just loaded by hand. Seating a fully loaded mag is not a problem. Reliability with a fully loaded mag seated is not a problem.

 

[McChemist]

I don’t understand people’s fear of cautiously trimming magazine springs. There is no justification whatever for the magazines on many of the gun designs created over the last few decades being so difficult to load. I will not put up with that ****. When the use of a magazine loading tool is a requirement and not just a convenience, something is wrong with that design. I trimmed a coil off of a magazine for my BG 2. Helped some. May take off another coil after some more test firing.
When I get the spring tension where I want without malfunctions I will trim my other two magazine springs.
I must say those BG springs are the hardest I have ever encountered. A medium-to-large sized pair of dykes (side cutters) will not faze them. I had to use a Dremel with a small cutting wheel to cut through the coil wire.

The failure to chamber a round was during my first range day with the BG2, and I had only cleaned and lubed the gun and the mags out of the box.

Day 1 on new pistols can be problematic. All of my M&Ps (SD9VE, M&P 9C, Shield+, FPC9) had thus issue after the initial cleaning. And, you guessed it, the misfeed issues occurred on S&W Mag #1. The FPC 9 is the sole exception. The misfeed occurred with a 17rd Pro-Mag on Day 2 range day. It maybe that FPCs are more peculiar to mag vendor than the pistol counterparts. It has been reported on some YouTube channels that ETS mags can be an issue. That has been discussed in some of this forum (I.think).

 

[GnarlsR2]

For me, ANY failure of a brand new firearm "out-of-the-box", after proper cleaning and lubrication according the Owner's Manual, is unacceptable.

The common comments are "Well... you gotta break it in.".... I say that's Bravo Sierra. That would be like buying a brand new Toyota Corolla, getting ready to drive it off the dealership lot and it does not start. Then the Salesman tells you "Well.. you gotta break it in.... You need to TRY starting it for at least one hour before it will start and run properly."

First range day, my only failure to feed was with the 12-round mag that had 11-rounds because I could not get 12 rounds loaded. On the closed slide, I simply popped in the mag with a lot of force and sling-shotted the slide. It would not go into full battery.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Using a fully loaded, 10 round magazine for a spare, with the BG2.0.
It's not a problem, charging the pistol, with an open slide and a 10 round magazine.
A reload, against a closed slide, is another matter. Realize that the magazines can be really slammed in there. But, in case of an unexpected visit to the two way range, I'm doubtful of a successful tactical reload.
I've downloaded the spare mag by one.

Have been experimenting with one spring and follower. Clipping a coil just made the follower motion feel lazy. Taking a millimeter off the bottom of the follower does seem to help, and I may experiment further with that.
In the mean time, 9 it is, in the spare mag.
Moon

Simple fix.........Download the spare by one round.

 

[ken158]

As I contemplate this thread, it is interesting to me that anyone is worried about a tactical reload with a .380. Why not carry a more reliable and powerful caliber in the same size handgun not known to have issues - 9mm or better? If a reload is even considered a potential necessity then a .380 should never be on a carry list. A reload is required if your shots with the first mag are misses or not incapacitating. A story that I will make short reminds me of a partner that went to the local drug store about 9 am to pick up a Rx before coming to work. We were plain clothes working evening vice. Upon entering, he quickly realized he had just walked into a robbery in progress. The bad guy pointed a handgun (make and caliber not recalled) at him and started screaming as he was now a 3rd “hostage” with two other customers. My partner had a Walther PPK/S in an ankle holster. He told me later that he never felt more under gunned and the Walther on the ankle felt a mile away… This was the real deal for sure. A silent alarm had been tripped and when the bad guy fled, my partner then drew his Walther and followed him outside of the store. As they rounded the corner of the building there was a marked LEO car facing the back of the store waiting for a back up unit. Lots of screaming commenced by the uniform officer and my partner in plain clothes wanted the uniform guy to recognize him and then the bad guy started shooting at both of them. The Walther was fired several times as the bad guy was getting into his car with no body hits but the uniform officer stopped the fight with several rounds from his 357 as his backup arrived and exited with his Remington 870 but did not fire. My partner stayed busy the rest of the day giving statements and such but the following day, traded the Walther for a Colt LW Commander in 45 ACP.

 

[seldon14]

For me, ANY failure of a brand new firearm "out-of-the-box", after proper cleaning and lubrication according the Owner's Manual, is unacceptable.

The common comments are "Well... you gotta break it in.".... I say that's Bravo Sierra. That would be like buying a brand new Toyota Corolla, getting ready to drive it off the dealership lot and it does not start. Then the Salesman tells you "Well.. you gotta break it in.... You need to TRY starting it for at least one hour before it will start and run properly."

First range day, my only failure to feed was with the 12-round mag that had 11-rounds because I could not get 12 rounds loaded. On the closed slide, I simply popped in the mag with a lot of force and sling-shotted the slide. It would not go into full battery.

Pretty much every UTV, 4 wheeler etc I've ever seen has a 25 hour break in period for the engine, listed in the manual. Most of these cost more than what I spend on my cars, and certainly more than most people spend on a gun.