SIG P320 Discharges?

[Oldsalt66]

It's official....this forum has turned into the love child of AR15.com and Glocktalk.

Add these fine names to that list as well:

Everytown for Gun Safety
Sandy Hook Promise
Brady: United Against Gun Violence
Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
March for Our Lives Action Fund
Moms Demand Action
Brady Campaign to prevent gun violence
Violence Policy Center

 

[Onomea]

From the article linked above:

"...The lawsuit comes days after a U.S. Air Force Security Forces airman was killed in Wyoming while wearing his SIG Sauer M18 pistol, the military version of the P320...."

That makes more sense than the holstered gun was lying on the table when it went off and shot the airman.

 

[CaliforniaKid]

You do the math. One post every 2 years on average, and the latest is a blatant shill post.

Shill? If I were pushing a firearm it would probably be the Walther PDP FS SD Pro 5.1. So anyone that doesn't agree with you is... never mind, you wouldn't get it.

 

[biku324]

From my post #5 on this thread:

MODs - you're welcome to lock this thread!

 

[Doug M.]

The AF member did not remove the pistol from the holster, but apparently took the whole assembly off the belt and put it on the desk in the holster. (Hypothesis: to hit the head, during which a holstered firearm could be a nuisance.) When you have a death resulting from what appears to be a design flaw of some not yet known type, and multiple uncommanded discharges on video, ten the death, there is ay too much smoke for there not to be a problem. Sig has drawn a line they can't defend, blaming these events of user error, bad holsters, and the like - which are often the problem, but there is no evidence to support their position. From my experience, the answer is clear. People I have know and respected for years, with different but valid experience, have come to largely the same conclusion. IMHO, the AF General who deadlined this abomination should be recommending to SecDef that there be a DOD wide removal from service, with greatest possible alacrity.

 

[Doug M.]

Cooper taught that rule about triggers before there was a Glock.

 

[GnarlsR2]

From the little bit I know about courts, juries, and lawsuits, the design of the P320 still has not been verified defective.
Who on the jury determined the design is defective?

 

[Ματθιας]

From the little bit I know about courts, juries, and lawsuits, the design of the P320 still has not been verified defective.
Who on the jury determined the design is defective?

First, you say "proven" defective, now, you say "verified" defective.. Keep moving those goal posts.

Can you explain to us why you think Sig settled out of court over a defective design?

 

[Oldsalt66]

From the little bit I know about courts, juries, and lawsuits, the design of the P320 still has not been verified defective.
Who on the jury determined the design is defective?

No qualified, recognized technical expert has ever been able to duplicate the sort of failure alledged by plaintiffs under controlled, observable, laboratory test conditions.

However, one never knows what a jury will decide, which is why so many civil matters are settled before verdict.

BTW: in every alleged incident, it's been the claimed that the pistols discharged spontaneously with absolutely NO manipulation of the trigger; which renders every clickbaiting youtuber "test" in which trigger movement is involved to be moot and non sequitor to the actual matter under investigation.

 

[GnarlsR2]

First, you say "proven" defective, now, you say "verified" defective.. Keep moving those goal posts.

Can you explain to us why you think Sig settled out of court over a defective design?

Yes I can. If you are having trouble with my vocabulary, Google the two words for a legal definition.
And then Google conceptual semantics.

 

[9Mary7]

Took my Sig m11 to the range today. No uncommanded discharges and a lot of pierced paper.
Love my traditional double action metal guns.

 

[Thaddeus Beauregard]

Thaddeus B.: Interesting observation. Could it be that lawyers smelled "blood in the water" after a few of these claims and went into a feeding frenzy attacking a corporation with deep pockets? It would be interesting to see statistics as to unintentional discharges across all brands and models compared to this one.

Lawyers in a feeding frenzy is a given, however lawyers didn't create all the videos of these incidents; they can only react to them after they happen, and nobody is going to stage a firearm discharging and injuring or killing someone.

 

[Onomea]

The AF member did not remove the pistol from the holster, but apparently took the whole assembly off the belt and put it on the desk in the holster. ..

Doug, I have seen that reported as well but so far have not seen anything beyond hearsay (speculation?) being repeated. If this is what actually happened, the holstered gun sitting on a table suddenly went off, scary stuff indeed.

 

[Oldsalt66]

First, you say "proven" defective, now, you say "verified" defective.. Keep moving those goal posts.

Can you explain to us why you think Sig settled out of court over a defective design?

Can you explain this?

Product Liability & Mass Torts Digest

Colwell v. Sig Sauer, Inc., No. 21-cv-1200-BKS, 2024 WL 4216047, at *1 (N.D.N.Y. Sept. 17, 2024), is another recent instance of federal courts reinforcing their role as “gatekeepers” to ensure expert…

www.winston.com

Or this:

 

[GnarlsR2]

No qualified, recognized technical expert has ever been able to duplicate the sort of failure alledged by plaintiffs under controlled, observable, laboratory test conditions.

However, one never knows what a jury will decide, which is why so many civil matters are settled before verdict.

BTW: in every alleged incident, it's been the claime that the pistols discharged spontaneously with absolutely NO manipulation of the trigger; which renders every clickbaiting youtuber "test" in which trigger movement is involved to be moot and non sequitor to the actual matter under investigation.

My good friend and California defense attorney once told me that a wrongful conviction by a jury for a crime happens 1 out of every 4 convictions. He said 1 out of every 4 people are convicted for a crime they did not commit.

 

[CRT2]

And the typical emotional response.

Only a Marine could misinterpret my remark - I believe in facts not opinions and assumptions. The P320 fires with a trigger pull. As a member of Sig Forum pointed out: “Incidents of spontaneous discharge have allegedly occurred WITHOUT the trigger being depressed at all; any and all tests that depress the trigger in any manner are 100% non sequitor to the allegations.”

 

[Ματθιας]

Yes I can. If you are having trouble with my vocabulary, Google the two words for a legal definition.
And then Google conceptual semantics.

They're your words not mine. You only changed them when I gave you what you asked for, "proof".

Can you explain this?

Product Liability & Mass Torts Digest

Colwell v. Sig Sauer, Inc., No. 21-cv-1200-BKS, 2024 WL 4216047, at *1 (N.D.N.Y. Sept. 17, 2024), is another recent instance of federal courts reinforcing their role as “gatekeepers” to ensure expert…

www.winston.com

Or this:

Explain what?

 

[Ματθιας]

If you all want to carry a firearm with lots and lots of documented safety problems while being banned and withdrawn from numerous organizations for being too dangerous to risk, have at it. That's on you all.

 

[GnarlsR2]

The comic relief in this thread is very refreshing.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

I read a joke that SIG is an acronym for Self Inflicted Gunshot wound. Humorous in a dark sort of way to be sure. However, one must take into account that since the P320 has been introduced, problems of this kind have been pretty consistant and far, far too regular in occurance.

ANY handgun that because of its design has a flaw that will cause it to discharge as has been reported is unsafe and shouldn't be carried AT ALL. All of us who tote handguns are full aware (or should be) of the risks involved in doing so and that handguns are often carried in a position where they can be hit, banged against something, dropped (yeah, "just begin" as my old plt sgt used to say). This is day to day use and the last thing anyone of us wants is for that weapon to go BANG when climbing in/out of a patrol vehicle or bumping the table in the roll call room.

There is a problem with this weapon. Period. No excuses, no reason, no nothing. It is a design flaw that SIG can't or doesn't want to fix and haven't despite their insistence. Right now, the SIG P320 is not only military standard issue but also multiple police agencies big and small. This is going to change VERY quickly. Even if the problem was successfully corrected, the pistol itself will always carry the taint of its past. That's why ANY firearm should not leave the factory without complete and through testing. This weapon obviously didn't.

Like Ian "Gun Jesus" McCullum (sic) on his channel suggested...just discontinue the weapon. FWIW when our DPS wanted to replace their SIG 357's they went to S&W M&P's...and had so many problems they scrapped that idea and went with the P320. So SIG isn't the only company to lay a big steamy one, but in S&W's case, the malfunctions were pretty much jamming although I think S&W has long corrected these issues where SIG has apparently not.