Model 15 & 19 adjustable sights

[blackpowder]

Hi everyone,

I just acquired my first S&W revolver with adjustable sights - a 1972 model 15 combat masterpiece. My only other revolver being a 1975 S&W model 10. Since I didn't get any of the original paperwork with the gun, I was wondering, what cartridge, loads and bullet weight, S&W used to sight these guns before leaving the factory. Does anyone know?
The vertical POI will differ quite a bit if you shoot standard 158gn LRN bullets, say at 15 yards, or much lighter and faster 125gn+P HP bullets at the same distance. At what distance, using what cartridge, did they zero these guns at the factory?

Thanks!

 

[Alk8944]

S&W uses standard pressure 158 gr. LRN for function firing. Always have. They only fire 3 rounds usually, just to be sure the gun shoots reasonably close to the sights as the gun was assembled.

What difference does it make? You need to adjust the sights to your ammunition and your style of shooting, regardless of what S&W uses.

 

[Lance Boyle]

Well if for commercial stocks generically shipped to distributers I'd say the .38 service guns were targeted for 158s. A police agency buying a number of guns could specify the ammo they wanted them targeted for and they were at the factory.

Boy I was thinking targeting for PD fixed sight guns. I have no idea on the adjustible sighted ones. Maybe they would change the front sights or rear leaf.

 

[Alk8944]

It makes no difference whether fixed or adjustable or if the guns are for a specific agency. 158 RNL is the ammunition the basic revolver was designed around and that is what they shoot in them. If the individual gun doesn't shoot within the required distance from POI it is returned from the range to the fitter for adjustment as needed. After any adjustments it is re-fired to verify it is now within accuracy tolerance.

You have to consider the cost. They go through huge amounts of ammunition as it is.

 

[blackpowder]

Ah, ok. I thought maybe the have a standard setting, which ensures that all model 15 revolvers leave the factory with the same sights, which shoot a bullet with a certain weight to point of aim at, perhaps, 15 yards. The cartridge may very well be a standard pressure load with a 158 LRN bullet - for example.

of course, if you use significantly different pressure loads and bullet weights, you will have to adjust the rear elevation. With my model 10, I always had to wing it by trial and error, shooting either high or low in order to get the POI on target.

 

[Alk8944]

Ah, ok. I thought maybe the have a standard setting, which ensures that all model 15 revolvers leave the factory with the same sights, which shoot a bullet with a certain weight to point of aim at, perhaps, 15 yards. The cartridge may very well be a standard pressure load with a 158 LRN bullet - for example.

of course, if you use significantly different pressure loads and bullet weights, you will have to adjust the rear elevation. With my model 10, I always had to wing it by trial and error, shooting either high or low in order to get the POI on target.

Theoretically the sights are the same, but there are slight differences in front sight height and position due to manufacturing tolerances gun-to-gun. The small difference of only .002 to .003" in height makes a 1" difference in poi . There are also differences in how you hold the gun, even including the weight and strength of your shooting arm and body weight. Your vision is also a factor.

All handguns are shot at the same distance by S&W, but I don't recall what the distance is. Possibly 50 feet. It has been 51 years since I was on the S&W range, when I was attending their "Armorers School" 1n 1974.

 

[Marcruger]

I would be surprised if the sight installer did anything other than roughly centering the rear sight. Did S&W actually adjust the sight during function testing? On the Model 10 I had, the standard 158gfn round nose lead hit dead on point of aim. I bet that was not a coincidence.

 

[MajorD]

I would be surprised if the sight installer did anything other than roughly centering the rear sight. Did S&W actually adjust the sight during function testing? On the Model 10 I had, the standard 158gfn round nose lead hit dead on point of aim. I bet that was not a coincidence.

I highly doubt S&W on standard run of the mill models did anything but install the sights and ship The gun. Over the years some companies ( colt, sig sauer walther ) did include test targets showing how the gun grouped and with said group centered. I don't recall S&W ever doing this ( did they with the registered magnums maybe?)
The time cost and effort required to "sight in " every production gun is not something most companies are willing to bother with.

I laugh when people on other forums ask how glock for example "sights in or zeroes " pistols. They don't a tech pushes a rear sight in and eyeballs center and the gun goes out the door.