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Another experience with lousy customer service. About two years ago I had the lock mechanism freeze up in my 642. I contacted S&W, and their response was: "What do you want us to do about it "?
Bought my LAST new S&W revolver
- Thread starter Greyman50
- Start date
Yendor357
Member
Had I paid $1200 for a box of chocolates, I'd have at least gotten something! lol!
All I got for my $1200 was the chore of writing a letter, packing the thing up, and driving to drop it off.
Give me your opinions: If you had a revolver that would not work out of the box, and you took it back to the local gun shot where you did many thousands of dollars worth of business in the past, would your gun shop have taken it back?
No wrong answer, I'm just curious.
All I got for my $1200 was the chore of writing a letter, packing the thing up, and driving to drop it off.
Give me your opinions: If you had a revolver that would not work out of the box, and you took it back to the local gun shot where you did many thousands of dollars worth of business in the past, would your gun shop have taken it back?
No wrong answer, I'm just curious.
Yet another disappointing story. All the S&W's I have or have had were manufactured between the '60's and the '90's, and most were spot on as far as quality. It's a shame a historic company has come to this. Sounds like ol' S&W could take a few lessons from outfits like Tisas, etc...
dsf
Member
I've bought two "new made" Smiths in the last few years - a Thunder Ranch and a 638. The Thunder Ranch is gone but the 638 is an EDC, primarily because if used for its intended purpose and related to an evidence room I won't miss it. The Thunder Ranch went away because of its MIM, mottled grey hammer and trigger, cold rolled FS pin, etc. Nothing wrong with those I suppose, it's just not why I buy S&Ws. I hover around 50 older model Smiths,
Interesting that a 70's Smith was mentioned, as that's when I first started buying them. Back then the "old timers" told me how lousy the new made revolvers were compared to the 40s and 50's versions, focusing mostly on the rough as heck actions. It was those rough actions that taught me how to use a stone and graphite paper (mostly 600 and 1500 grit) to clean them up. Kind of funny that these are the guns most of us chase as desirable 50 years later.
FWIW (and I know this may not be a welcome response) I'd buy the GD insert and blow off steam by telling S&W they ticked me off no end and include a link to this posting. I think Dawson, MGW or SDM sells a replacement.
Absolutely your local gun shop should have allowed you to return it for a full refund with an apology for your inconvenience.
When I experience disrespectful service, or poor customer service, I tend to say something to let them know they "will not get any more of my business, and I will share my bad experience with anyone who asks me about your business."
In the latter years of my career I worked for Google and Yelp in Digital Advertising, Marketing, and Customer Service. Due to the internet, social media, and star ratings, bad products or service can cost a business dramatically more than the lose profit from even a single sale.
Recovering from a bad reputation is extremely difficult today.
"Smith and Wesson is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get."
A box of chocolates doesn't cost $1200!!
Not bought Godiva chocolates lately, eh?????
The shop I worked for would have done something. The truth is, no one knows what was done once it left the shop. But that's where the relationship part comes into play, IMO.
OP
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A box of candy for $1200.00…This 610 is a box of s-+t. If the gun shop I bought it from wasn't 200 miles away I'd take it back. Have a friend thats a jeweler and will him to gold plate the head of a small nail and replace it. Oh did I mention it had no forcing cone? Another screw up but a small stone on my dremil followed by a fine polishing wheel fixed that. Just finished trigger job on my Colt Delta Elite and think I'll stick to 1911 types and OLDER S&Ws. Also finished " tuning up" the Mdl 63 bought last week, mfg'ed in 1977 and have read thay were " rough". This one had so many issues from lousy machining that was easy to fix.
Have started telling gun buddies to Avoid new S&Ws, couple gun shows coming up and a table to " display" this POS might be a very good idea…..
Have started telling gun buddies to Avoid new S&Ws, couple gun shows coming up and a table to " display" this POS might be a very good idea…..
I'm really sorry to hear this! Very disappointing to say the least! I would be livid!
I have been pretty lucky with S&W overall, I guess, but my experience hasn't been without a couple of annoyances. When I bought my M627, they didn't install the DX front sight properly. When whoever installed the front sight, they obviously didn't correctly pivot the sight into the slot, press back and then pivot down the front of it to slide under the pin, they instead just clumsily forced it in, bending and crushing the retention roll pin so the front sight was loose right out of the box. Also on the same gun, the retention nut on the rear sight windage screw wasn't staked, vibrated loose just during dry firing before I ever fired the first shot, and got lost on the floor somewhere. I called them and they promptly sent out replacement parts. I was planning to replace the sights with LPA front and rear fiber optic sights all along anyway, so ultimately I didn't raise too much hell, but it was annoying nevertheless. The gun is otherwise super nice and accurate and I love it, but it wasn't a great way to start my ownership experience.
I have been pretty lucky with S&W overall, I guess, but my experience hasn't been without a couple of annoyances. When I bought my M627, they didn't install the DX front sight properly. When whoever installed the front sight, they obviously didn't correctly pivot the sight into the slot, press back and then pivot down the front of it to slide under the pin, they instead just clumsily forced it in, bending and crushing the retention roll pin so the front sight was loose right out of the box. Also on the same gun, the retention nut on the rear sight windage screw wasn't staked, vibrated loose just during dry firing before I ever fired the first shot, and got lost on the floor somewhere. I called them and they promptly sent out replacement parts. I was planning to replace the sights with LPA front and rear fiber optic sights all along anyway, so ultimately I didn't raise too much hell, but it was annoying nevertheless. The gun is otherwise super nice and accurate and I love it, but it wasn't a great way to start my ownership experience.
I have all the revolvers I want, and some are going up for sale when i het back to GA. I am on the 1911 kick, more than I need to be
OP
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Pete if you think the revolver addiction is bad wait til you get into 1911s, LOL!
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I have no idea who you were talking to but I have not had any issues with S&W sending small parts to my via US Mail, in the three times that I had talked to them they put the part in an envelope and sent it out the same day, free of charge. A lot of how things go has a lot to do with attitude. There are a lot of attitude issues here on the forum and if you talk to the customer service specialist like you talk here I can understand why you have issues. How would you like to be a customer support person and have to deal with people like yourself all day?
Being nice, and being friendly goes a long way toward getting help. As for S&W turn around time, I have had issues with S&W products over the years. Not often but when I call to send the firearm in for warranty repair the same goes, be nice and be friendly. The longest turn around time I have ever had was 4 weeks, 3 is the usual and most of that is the time it takes to get there and back.
In a forum like this, I find it not uncommon to have a lot of people complaining about this or that. I also see that the thousands of people who have bought the flawless firearms, have no reason to come here, only those who like to complain. So keep in mind, be nice and friendly when you call for warranty or repair work, and think about how you would feel if you were the product support specialist and had to deal with you.
Such a minute problem but aggravating I'm sure . How did the piece preform other than that? I was looking at the .357 mountain gun and liked the feel of it.
I sent a 19-3 back to S&W performance shop a few years ago and had a fantastic experience with the tech even calling me to go over the service. I'm sure that the majority of their team wether in manufacturing or service work are very proud of the work they do and the company itself so it's just sad to hear you had so much anguish over that little plastic insert. Good luck and be patient, it does take a while .
gk9344
Member
Warranty work door to door on my 617 was less than 4 weeks after dropping it off at FedEx. Have yet to get it to the range to see if they fixed all the issues.
Long rant coming..........
If not, it will go back again with a testy letter to some of the S&W executives. In many instances, the pen can be mightier than the sword.
I'm suspect there is some 'bean counter' somewhere in the bowels of S&W who is measuring % of warranty returns against units manufactured. I also suspect S&W executives have determined an acceptable failure rate.
The MSRP on my 617 is $979.00. It took me close to a year to find one from my local dealer at $679.00. I'm sure he did not sell it at a loss & I suspect the distributor he got it from didn't either. If one goes a little further you can probably drill down and guesstimate that it costs S&W a little over $400.00 to manufacture the item (amount extrapolated based on information available in AI).
Taking this a step further, shipping & insurance by FedEx was around $120.00 (based on information on shipping label). According to AI, the average wage for a blue collar worker in MA is around $37.00/hr. I suspect y'all can see where I'm going with this.
The point I'm trying to make, each time an item goes back for warranty work, the profit is diminished for that unit. While it's commendable there are those who fix their issues. I would submit you are doing both S&W and your selves a disservice by not forcing S&W to improve their out the door quality control.
At least they have not off shored their customer service & manufacturing....... so far.
Just my opinion.
Long rant coming..........
If not, it will go back again with a testy letter to some of the S&W executives. In many instances, the pen can be mightier than the sword.
I'm suspect there is some 'bean counter' somewhere in the bowels of S&W who is measuring % of warranty returns against units manufactured. I also suspect S&W executives have determined an acceptable failure rate.
The MSRP on my 617 is $979.00. It took me close to a year to find one from my local dealer at $679.00. I'm sure he did not sell it at a loss & I suspect the distributor he got it from didn't either. If one goes a little further you can probably drill down and guesstimate that it costs S&W a little over $400.00 to manufacture the item (amount extrapolated based on information available in AI).
Taking this a step further, shipping & insurance by FedEx was around $120.00 (based on information on shipping label). According to AI, the average wage for a blue collar worker in MA is around $37.00/hr. I suspect y'all can see where I'm going with this.
The point I'm trying to make, each time an item goes back for warranty work, the profit is diminished for that unit. While it's commendable there are those who fix their issues. I would submit you are doing both S&W and your selves a disservice by not forcing S&W to improve their out the door quality control.
At least they have not off shored their customer service & manufacturing....... so far.
Just my opinion.
OP
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Not a plastic insert. Actual gold plated pin simple inserted into hole in rear face of front sight, pic I posted shows the empty hole.
You say minute problem , well after paying $1200.oo any Reasonable Man would surely not expect something so simple to fail. The blatant failure of design, engineering and assembly is dang gone obvious and totally Unacceptable. By chance those in design, engineering and assembly do not know how to do their jobs then the here we are with such issues….
Jerry in SC
Member
I had warranty issue with a Colt King Cobra Target .22. It was from the first run, excess endshake, they sent me a new gun six months later. That one broke the hammer hook, they repaired it in four weeks. It broke again, this time they offered me a full refund without me even asking, the check came in two weeks. I have two from 2024 and 2025 that have been perfect so far. I may have had a problem, but you can't fault service like that.
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Unsure where you got that I was rude??? I merely asked for a replacement gold dot insert to be mailed to me. Those I spoke to gave me LAME excuses. Was in charge of plant maintenance for the 3 rd largest Corp. in the world many years ago. Have dealt with every type in business good, bad and horrible.
Dan5809
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I've been an S&W customer since around 1980. In recent years the price has exceeded the quality. I've purchased other brands, Sig, Ruger, and Taurus. I am convinced that Taurus has greatly improved the quality while holding prices at affordable levels. My last three purchases were Taurus.
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I was friends with several Sonoma County sheriffs, one was the firearms guy. When S&W was sold to Bangor Punta the Mod 19 pistols were so bad that entire shipments would arrive with almost 100% failure rates. This is nothing new to S&W. So 1965 to 1984 they were making junk too? I suspect that they survived using a 100 years of good history which has been long gone now.
Not trashing the complaint you have or the comments anyone else has made, just chiming in from a legal angle and a longer term collector who buys one or two per year for 5 decades, I have a pile.
You complaint is not well described in terms of how the world works today in manufacturing and distribution. The earth is no longer flat and the term common sense has changed in meaning, we all need to keep up.
When an issue comes before any CS group, the issue of shipping relies on many things. Of course with your background as the head guy of the third largest company of it's kind you know that CS people are not located in the supply or parts house and often not in the same state. An electronic communication goes into a first come first served pile of digital orders, you know that.
The CS guys would not likely have any idea how many spare parts of that kind are in storage for some future complaint, especially if that is a part that never or seldom fails. When a product is that good, they do not order or store a lot of those parts, so factually and practically, when those guns are that good, you would normally expect delays, and perhaps until a new production run of that part is ordered. That being said, where do they source small gold bead pieces that are used to enhance visibility for shooting handguns. The CS people would not likely know where those little gold beads come from, because Smith and Wesson produces or has produced many different guns with many different sighting options, perhaps in the thousands.
I assume the gun still shot just fine, but the gold bead might have aided the sight picture?
Personally, I buy one Smith and Wesson handgun per year, sometimes 2 and in recent years only buy new ones. I have had exactly one problem, and that was the cheap little fibre optic piece in the front sight of the 5.7 x 28 handgun. Like yours it just went flying off at the range. Apparently they have a front sight problem. Superglue or epoxy likely would have prevented that. I will be calling them next week and see how my complaint compares with yours.
Historically, I have never ever had a problem with them. I was asked to evaluate a SW AR 10 and we found the rifle was shipped with no rifling in the barrel whatsoever. They made it good immediately.
As to your comment about them not accepting used guns. From a legal standpoint AND from a practical standpoint it is not just a business decision. Once a gun enters private hands, it is a product of unknown damage and there is no idea of whether the gun has fired ammo above the proof testing protocols. It would be legally insane for any company to take a gun back after ownership has changed.
Why? because people who buy things and damage them lie about them and try to return them for a full refund. When a person like yourself, suddenly wants a new gun because the front bead on the front sight fell off, you suddenly become a common sense suspect case.
I once bought a used rifle for a fraction of the cost, the local dealer refunded the full price of the gun and took it back. I was offered the gun cheap with the understanding in writing that it was suspect and I waived all liability. The facts were the guy bought it a week before deer gun season, kept it 3 weeks and brought it back claiming it was not accurate. That was lie, I killed a huge buck with it later and it shoots just fine. People do that.
Keep in mind that Walmart is an easy company to sue, because they have lots of money. Monsanto the company that makes Round Up week killer is an easy company to sue, and Smith and Wesson is easy to sue because they have lots of money. Juries almost always buy into the lies of individuals suing big companies. Did I mention that I am a retired attorney?
Smith and Wesson would put their company at risk for every gun that they accept back as they could not sell it without risk. And the cost of proof testing all such returned guns would destroy any profit margin built into the gun.
Practically speaking, I understand your frustration. I have plenty of money and would like to add a 610, but am not willing to part with $1,200 for one, and probably never will, I have lots others, including vintage that perform very well, and certainly much more powerful than the nice little 10mm, I have them in 1911s and like the round a lot. Milder that 357 wheel guns and just a pleasure for an old guy to shoot all day.
I am curious why you just did not shoot it as is, until the new bead comes in the mail, eventually, their data base will find one and be shipped to you. Then you can epoxy it or superglue or whatever. So, did you try shooting it like I did with my fiber optic insert removed? It does make a difference in daylight, but I noticed it did not matter much when I was shooting in a dark range.
As to never buying that brand again, there is always an issue of the competition. I am well aware that Taurus is getting very , very few complaints about their wheel guns. That is when you look at the number they market and the number that actually have problems, the number is statistically insignificant. I am neither a Taurus fan or do I trash them, I have their Rossi lever guns in 454 and 357 and one of their 357 wheel guns, and a couple others, all are perfect in every way. I did send a used Rossi wheel gun back a couple years ago to replace a missing sight, they did, even though I was the second owner, they cleaned and polished the gun, test fired it and had it back in 2 weeks, and it never cost me a dime. Taurus? Who knew. The little 9 shot ultralight is now my tackle box gun, loaded with snake shot for fishing. It replaces my vintage SW model 63, a collectors item that lives in the safe.
You just bought model 63, so your know, mine was made in 1980, barely got the pinned barrel one. You are lucky to find one of that vintage, most folks hang onto them, mine is extremely accurate and I cherish that one.
Just saying, no company should replace or buy back a used gun, one that has legally changed ownership, that is not even a close question. And in my view, there is a logical reason why they cannot immediately tell you when that small part might be found at the supplier and when it could be shipped directly from the source to you, or to Smith and Wesson and then on to you.
Then again, the gun should be just fine, but that the bead would enhance your sight picture during shooting sessions with good light. I am reminded that I have several dozen guns with plain front sights. All of them would be better with gold beads or maybe fibre sights, but they work pretty good without that addition. I carried handguns with plain black front sights in harms way outside the US and at 4 different law enforcement agencies for half a century, and they worked OK. Not trashing your choice, just mentioning an option.
An maybe Taurus would be a better place for your new acquisitions. I love my Rugers, but not very impressed with their customer service at all. That said I will probably keep buying Rugers anyway. And I have some Colts, they have lost their appeal to many, but mine are just fine. None of those companies are perfect, just saying.
I am just suggesting that marketing in the modern world is different and maybe there is a better way that taking a loss on a gun when the proper part will get here eventully.
