.38 S & W stats

[David LaPell]

When the .38 S & W was first introduced in 1877 (not the .38 Special), what was the powder charge, the bullet weight, and the muzzle velocity and muzzle energy?

 

[GatorFarmer]

That's a good question. It was originally a BP round. I wonder how much fit into the case? I think that the 146 gr RNL bullet that we see loaded today is the same weight as in ye olden days. At least older top breaks that I've shot seemed to fire it to point of aim. 200gr lead bullets were offered later, in the smokeless era, but I don't think that they were original.

 

[txpistolero]

BP 38 S&W Round

According to Philip Sharpe, 9.6gr of FF BP behind a 146 RN bullet for a MV of 740 FPS.

Philip Sharpe, Complete Guide to Handloading. 1937

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That is correct, the .38 S&W was originally a BP load so there really wasn't a standard charge like with smokeless powder. With BP calibers the cases were designed so that the case would hold the amount of BP necessary to achieve the desired velocity. That's why many of the calibers still in use today which were originally made for BP are so large. (like the .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 Colt)

BTW, if you're reloading for the .38 S&W try loading a 200gr bullet to replicate the old British Military 38/200 load. It's fun to load and to shoot.

 

[james56]

38S&W load

can anyone tell me where i could get this BP load from
just bought a S&W 38 Hammerless from the 1888's and can be shot its in VG-EX condition and want to send some bullets down range heres a pic of it
thanks
james

 

[walnutred]

According to Philip Sharpe, 9.6gr of FF BP behind a 146 RN bullet for a MV of 740 FPS.

Philip Sharpe, Complete Guide to Handloading. 1937

I have cartridge catalogs from the early 1950s that list a 146-148 gn bullet at around 750fps with a ME of approximately 173. This pretty much duplicates the old BP published figures. Now I see factory listings as being a 146-148gn bullet at 680fps and a ME around 150. Recently I had a chance to fire a mixed lot of old ammo which included some Peters ammo that had copper/brass washed or plated projectile. While the visible bullet profile appeared identical to the standard 146 gn lead bullet, it was a noticeably stronger load.

Had it not been for this hands on experiences I would have assumed that the old velocity numbers were exaggerated. Now I expect that the old commercial loads were stronger. A ME of 173 is noticeably better than 32 ACP ball and probably in the practical range of 380 ball. 38 S&W is not a 38 Special but given the handy size of many 38 S&W revolvers I can see why it hangs on.

About 20 years ago a retiring local police officer offered to sell me his off duty/back-up gun. To my surprise he handed me an old H&R hammerless. I chuckled and said: I guess it's a good thing you never needed to use this isn't it? He looked a little taken back and said: I don't know, it worked fine the only time I really needed it.