House burnt down as firemen watch?

One other thing,Mobile homes go like tinder (even the new ones) From what I've seen the F.D. can't do much except prevent further damage to adjoining properties.
Maybe by the time they got there it was toast anyway.

Wow!!!! I never thought this forum had so many Marxist on board. No wonder this country's in the mess it's in.

From each according to his ability; To each according to his need.
Karl Marx

There was recently an election in this rural Tennessee county proposing to tax the residence for contracted fire services from the city. The voters decided they didn't want to pay and turned down the offer of services preferring instead to continue the prescription service which was $75.00.

This homeowner not only refused to pay the $75.00 fee but made propaganda against the fire department and encouraged others to refuse payment as well.

The fire started in outside burn barrels and took approximately 1 hour to reach the house. There was no move on the homeowner's part to rescue his pets or save his personal property.

The fire department did not respond per policy in spite of receiving three 911 calls reporting the fire. They did respond when the neighbor, a paid subscriber to the service, reported his field on fire.

This homeowner was offered and refused the service. From what I understand now, both he and his wife have accepted responsibility for their foolishness. It's the liberal, Socialists, Marxist, among us us that seem to be crying foul. I don't get it.

I'll steal a page from johngaltfla; which of you, if your neighbor was losing his home through foreclosure because he refused to pay his mortgage, would be willing to bail him out? It's exactly the same difference. In either event he loses the house through his own inaction. Fire is just faster than foreclosure.

ladder13 said:

You can't fund a FD on a pay as you please schedule, otherwise the city AND the outlying areas would have no coverage. This type of service costs alot of money, apparatus run from $300,000 or so up to possibly a million. Fire service tools cost a fortune, you don't get extrication tools at Walmart.

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Sure you can fund a FD on a pay as you please schedule. Here is a new $300k truck recently bought. What can't be funded is lifetime pensions, benefits.... on and on... for positions that can be filled by volunteers.

Hwy. 58 Fire Dept. Buys New Engine | fire, new, truck - Local News - WTVC NewsChannel 9: Chattanooga News, Weather, Radar, Sports, Lottery

Our local volunteer fire departments are funded by insurance companies and fees that are paid when you pay your water bill. You don't pay your water bill and you don't get any water. The VFD will still come out and fight your fire...even if you don't have any water.

ChattanoogaPhil said:

Sure you can fund a FD on a pay as you please schedule. Here is a new $300k truck recently bought. What can't be funded is lifetime pensions, benefits.... on and on... for positions that can be filled by volunteers.

Hwy. 58 Fire Dept. Buys New Engine | fire, new, truck - Local News - WTVC NewsChannel 9: Chattanooga News, Weather, Radar, Sports, Lottery

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What's the charge for a response to a "pot on the stove" to a home without a subscription? How about an inadvertant trip of the fire alarm? A flooded basement? A leaky propane tank? Too many scenarios to mention.
All services not fitting into that neat box. Most FD's today just don't fight fires but provide a vast array of services, or at least they do where I come from. Where's the money coming from if people opt out, I see no charge for anything but a fire.

Snowbandit

You seem to have a lot of inside info as I can find no substantiation for

"This homeowner not only refused to pay the $75.00 fee but made propaganda against the fire department and encouraged others to refuse payment as well."

There was no move on the homeowner's part to rescue his pets or save his personal property.

Please supply the links for above

Golly. Looks like I started a hornets nest and I never dug into all the facts before I made my 1st post. Still, I feel like this. Put out the damn fire and then fight over it when your done. No one addressed my earlier post when I came back and said with that thinking about non payment why dont the PD have computers hooked up to the county tax board to see if a wineo or whoever else needs help while being mugged, is all paid up on their taxs? Sounds stupid and laughable, I admit, but really, is the princable not exactly the same?
Look. Just how did the mafia get started in the protection business? If some business owner didnt give vigorish bad things happened to the business and probley the owner if I remember those "Untouchable" TV programs, right?
Lets carry the exact same principal a little farther. The homeowner didnt pay. The fire dept comes and watchs the fun. Guess that will teach ya, smuck! Now da rest of youse take note and pay my boyes see? Or dis will happen to youse! Kapish?
Okay, straighten me out here. Whats the differance between the mafia and this goverment paid fire department?

The police and fire departments in Memphis TN went on strike the summer of 1976 and again a few years later. In 1976 a lot of building burned. National Guard troops were called out both times.

darmtn1917 said:

Snowbandit

You seem to have a lot of inside info as I can find no substantiation for

"This homeowner not only refused to pay the $75.00 fee but made propaganda against the fire department and encouraged others to refuse payment as well."

There was no move on the homeowner's part to rescue his pets or save his personal property.

Please supply the links for above

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Check your PM's. Location where the source material can be found is there but I just don't have the time right now to go back through all of it to dig out the references. It's all there though.

This has happened since Ben Franklin started the first US fire department. People who bought fire insurance had a plaque mounted on their house, if your house didn't have the plaque it was allowed to burn.

Did the man previously pay? Was this the first year he forgot to pay? How late had he been in his payment? No human members of his family were hurt or killed in the fire. Though I'm sorry for the loss of his family pets, there is no way I'd have let any of my firefighters put themselves in danger for a pet. Dont get me wrong, I have cats and dogs and they are members of my family but when I was a fire officer human life always came first and that included the lives of my firefighters.

Would I have fought the fire? If it wasn't a risk to my crew, yes. If I needed justification for fighting an uninsured/ uncovered property, I'd have probably said I was doing it to protect the neighbors insured/ covered property. Then I'd have socked the guy for the bill.

In my 27 years as a firefighter and EMT I've never turned my back on someone in need and have often responded out of my jurisdiction. Times are changing though, I broke my back nearly two months ago and have turned off my beeper and don't answer the phone when it's a fire/emergency call. I wont until my dr gives me the ok, so it's up to the locals to fend for themselves. Though I've lived in this house for 16 years I'm still concidered a "baser" (transplanted here when assigned to the local Air Force base) Of the 6 EMT's in town, only one is a native. There just isn't an interest in volunteering.

Before anyone condemns that fire department and it's crew for not acting, learn all of the facts. Personnel and resources are limited in the best of times and when everyone does their fair share. When funds are less than anticipated, something has to get cut back. When everyone doesn't pitch in, something has to give. Unfortunately for this guy and his family, it was his pets and home.

Let me get this right, homeowner has fire, calls 911, wont respond because didn't pay his contract $75.00. But they show up to hose down the grass between him and his neighbors house? That is crazy. After reading the whole thread I can see there is differently two sides to this event. I for the life of me cant see why they wouldn't fight the fire if they were there already and bill him. The job is Fire "Fighter", not Fire "Watcher"

Think Progress Tennessee County’s Subscription-Based Firefighters Watch As Family Home Burns Down

... Obion County Expands Subscription-Only Fire Service To More Towns (Think Progress) - Democratic Underground

The "progressives" are all of one mind! It is all the fault of us red state conservatives.

Oh, and by the way, I'm really, really glad I don't live in a "progressive" state like Maryland.

I'm certainly not one for big government, but there are certain services that are considered essential and no one should be excluded from. Fire service should not be an option, just as things like roads and water utilities aren't. I find it ludicris that some genius politician decided making fire fighting an option instead of just tagging the 75 bucks onto the taxes they already pay.

And what civil service employee actually cares if the city/county/state is getting their money? Do your job and let some bean counter sort out the rest. Real company men that bunch. Would anyone be complaining if they said screw the fee and saved the guy's house anyway?

Just a simple question,or two.
What if the homeowner called 911 to report the fire and in the meantime he was able to extinguish said fire. Would it be OK to bill him the cost of rolling out a couple million dollars worth of manpower and apparatus? Do you think he would pay?

redlevel said:

Think Progress Tennessee County’s Subscription-Based Firefighters Watch As Family Home Burns Down

... Obion County Expands Subscription-Only Fire Service To More Towns (Think Progress) - Democratic Underground

The "progressives" are all of one mind! It is all the fault of us red state conservatives.

Oh, and by the way, I'm really, really glad I don't live in a "progressive" state like Maryland.

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As Olbermann said it's the Tea Party's fault.

I see some progressives in red states.

redlevel said:

Oh, and by the way, I'm really, really glad I don't live in a "progressive" state like Maryland.

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Now that's a truly ignorant statement. I can assure you something akin to what happened in TN would NOT happen in Maryland. In fact, my paid city fire department routinely assists a neighboring city in another STATE. I can also say, unequivocally, that Maryland State Police helicopters routinely assist other jurisdictions including the District of Columbia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. A Maryland based rescue squad with which I am familiar routinely answers calls in the District of Columbia. There are many other examples of inter-agency/jursidictional cooperation involving Maryland.

I can assure you the citizens of the state of Maryland pay little attention to jurisdiction boundaries when our neighbors are in peril. Period.

ladder13 said:

Most FD's today just don't fight fires but provide a vast array of services, or at least they do where I come from. Where's the money coming from if people opt out, I see no charge for anything but a fire.

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Its not such a sophisticated operation as you may be accustomed to.

Here is a web site for a station. -- Our department is funded mostly by subscriptions for fire service. The only bad part is that only about 25% of our 110 sq. miles of district are subscribers. No one live's at the station but bunk rooms are provided to those who want to pull a shift or just spend the night after a late call. About us

ChattanoogaPhil said:

Its not such a sophisticated operation as you may be accustomed to.

Here is a web site for a station. -- Our department is funded mostly by subscriptions for fire service. The only bad part is that only about 25% of our 110 sq. miles of district are subscribers. No one live's at the station but bunk rooms are provided to those who want to pull a shift or just spend the night after a late call. About us

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I thought so Phil, didn't mean to degrade them, just pointing out with some paid(and some vol depts also) Dept's you get a whole lot of services for your money. Each service has a cost attached to it.
We did lots of things that the vast majority of us didn't want to do, but our Commissioner was always looking for brownie points. An example, we get a call for a flooded basement. We get there and the homeowner is sitting in the kitchen with a brand new sump pump he purchased from Home Depot. He wanted US to take it out of the box, lower it into his basement, and when it finished pumping, come back and put it away. No lie, the truth.
Another one, same thing "flooded basement"...we get there and barely enough water in the basement to squeegee it. We used mops to sop up the water.
Another call we get, "flooded house"...we get there and the homeowner wants us to set up a pump in his yard because "the water may reach my house" and "I'm personal friends with the Commissioner"
Don't even want to get into the 3 am "I got a headache" calls.
I could go on, but you get the idea.

Btw, you guys cover a much larger area than we do.

The Big D said:

you imbecilic comment merits no reply.

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The Big D said:

Now that's a truly ignorant statement.

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You're pretty tough on those with a differing opinion, ain't you?

I'm still glad I live in Georgia rather than Maryland, and would much rather live in Tennessee than Maryland, even with all the imbeciles and ignoramuses. For one thing, Maryland's gun laws are a little too "progressive" for me.

You might back up a little and consider that ideas and procedures that are appropriate for a state with a population density of around 550 per square mile might not necessarily be best for a state with a population density of around 140.

Of course us ignoramuses and imbeciles ain't very "progressive."

The following is a little off thread, but seems like a good time to post it. As I said at other times, I worked for lockheed aircraft from 1965 to 2000 as a guard, 35 years. We had a huge factory fire department and they had it seemed unlimited budget, the best of everything! The guards and the firemen were together in the same building and about two levels up we had the same department manager. Not sure, but I estimate we had roughly a 30 man fire dept, and roughly a 150 guards at palmdale. We all knew each other. For many years we all had the same pay grade. About in the 1980s the firemen threatend strike and demanded several pay grades higher than us guards.
In all those years I can only remember just a couple of real for sure fire runs, not counting the medical aspect of monday morning heart attacts etc. They BBqed a lot, pumped iron, built model airplanes and got insulted occasionly if they had to go and inspect a area to give a permit to a welder. The company on about their last contract gave in to keep them from strikeing. Meanwhile the company negotiated with the county and got their ducks in a row. The department was working two 12 hour shifts and above that everyone got all the double time pay they wanted as money was good and guys were takeing lots of time off. The parking lot looked like a country club. All had new 4 WD trucks, lexus`s or whatever they wanted. All that changed when they wanted still more at the next contract! Lockheed fired them all but a couple union stewards that had super seniority over the other older guys to just inspect fire extinguishers and give welding permits etc. The firemen and most the fine trucks and equipment went bye-bye. They contracted los angeles county to respond!! A couple of my best friends ended up takeing super cheap jobs as contract guards etc. Dont know what this has to do with this thread, just thought I would practice my typeing.