Do I Need an EBR?

Now a days if you have the "Old fashioned" gas operated versions you just are not hip at all. You MUST have a piston driven one which are so way much more better.

Once you go EBR, you never go back.

You DO know that the AR can be had in TONS of different calibers, right?

Get an AR-10 if you are so inclined, .308
Or a single shot .50

5.56 in teh right place, you wont even need four rounds, cop killing gangbangers can't hit the broad side of a barn, only the innocent bystander behind and to the side of the barn, so don't make your assumption of the round based on that.

Funny how the UNITED STATES MILITARY has NO problems using 5.56, just saying, if it's good enough for them to GO TO WAR WITH, then it's good enough for anything I might need it for.

But then again I'm an AR addict.

9c1 lover said:

Funny how the UNITED STATES MILITARY has NO problems using 5.56, just saying, if it's good enough for them to GO TO WAR WITH, then it's good enough for anything I might need it for.

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I showed my carbine to a decorated Marine veteran just yesterday, a retired Gy Sgt. He was with 1st Force Recon in Vietnam in '68 and '69. He has been the pastor of my church since 1981. He said he and his men despised the gun for its unreliability and the round for its lack of power.

Maybe the military hierarchy has, or had, no problems, but the fighting man had plenty of problems with it, especially in the early years. Undoubtably, the reliability problems have been mostly addressed. I don't think the .223 round is any more powerful than it was then, though.

I got mine for a fun gun, and for something that will be able to lay down a larger volume of fire in case the Zombies do indeed come. If something goes "bump" in the night, I will grab a handgun until I can make my way to a shotgun, just like I always have, though.

Not sure about the rest here but I feel I can hold off a fair sized army with the guns I own now.

With my AR, I waste a lot of ammo. With my lever actions, bolt actions and semi auto hunting rifles, I make each shot count and they each will fire pretty fast.

Now with a brace of handguns, I am set.

No plastic handguns, no more tactical rilfes.

Not sure if I need more ammo though. Ammo is like money, there is never enough.

redlevel said:

I showed my carbine to a decorated Marine veteran just yesterday, a retired Gy Sgt. He was with 1st Force Recon in Vietnam in '68 and '69. He has been the pastor of my church since 1981. He said he and his men despised the gun for its unreliability and the round for its lack of power.

Maybe the military hierarchy has, or had, no problems, but the fighting man had plenty of problems with it, especially in the early years. Undoubtably, the reliability problems have been mostly addressed. I don't think the .223 round is any more powerful than it was then, though.

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If it gives you any solace, modern Marines seem to buy plenty of AR type rifles. Though AR10 variants are popular, most people still seem to be buying M4 type carbines. Which is interesting since general issue in the Marines is a flat top rifle (20" bbl) and not a carbine. The Army also did a survey a few years back (the M4 is standard issue for combat deploying Army units, save for guys with a DMR, SAW, etc) and the M4 carbine was one of the most beloved pieces of gear and one that soldiers had confidence in.

But then around the same time the Army did testing and found that the M4 had a much higher rate of jamming than did full length rifles. Eh.

The Marines simply issued a spiffy new bayonet, basically a Kabar shaped knife that is also a bayonet... just in case there was an issue with jamming...

Heavier bullets, open tip match (a hollow point that isn't a hollowpoint... long story), actual JHPs... all are available if you don't trust 55 gr M193 type ball. However it would seem that M193 type ammo actually has a decent performance record.

Anyway... A new AR buying frenzy (people prefer the term modern sporting rifle or MSR over EBR now btw) is a bit odd. I suppose it must be in preparation for the upcoming 2012 apocalypse, for which the most recent Cheaper than Dirt Catalog had a countdown on the front.

That said, the AR platform in its current guise is being surpassed by the SCAR series, the HK416 and other guns that still use AR mags, but work a bit differently.

Good optics and a set of armor with rifle plates (armor has made its biggest comeback in 600 or so years) are actually better investments than a specific platform, assuming someone actually expects trouble.

Cheese and rice Gator! You do know we all hold you in the higest regard for a civilian know-it-all who has never been in combat. Don't let that stop you from being an authority.
Please continue to regale us with all your mall-Ninja-survivalist techniques. I'm all a twitter....

I've never been a big fan of the AR or the 5.56. Probably the rifle is "clumsy" to me, with the way the controls are laid out and work. But, that being said, they seem to be a lot more reliable than back when they were sent to Viet Nam with the wrong type of powder in the ammunition and without cleaning kits. Still not a big fan of the 5.56, but they are fun to shoot. Guess I read too much Elmer back then.

Glad you got a good deal!

For my semiauto 223 needs I have a Ruger Mini14. I like the simplicity of the gun.. a downsized M1 Garand. Not as accurate but at 100 yds it is a MOM(minute of man) rifle.

For the EBR I went with a camo ver... Rem R25 in 243. For some reason it loves the cheap federal 100gr from Wally World. I changed the trigger for a Geissele DM trigger and am happy as a clam.

:: Books & Manuals

This site is an excellent review of the definitive book on the AR 15 and all the things that arrogant bureaucrats did to screw it up. Stoner designed an excellent system but cost cutters and opportunists ended up messing things up and endangering our troops. Obviously things are better "now" but these problems can resurface and make me reluctant to trust this gun/system if our society comes apart.
YMMV

rimfired said:

Cheese and rice Gator! You do know we all hold you in the higest regard for a civilian know-it-all who has never been in combat. Don't let that stop you from being an authority.
Please continue to regale us with all your mall-Ninja-survivalist techniques. I'm all a twitter....

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I read Gator's post, and while it is not overly friendly, I really don't understand your response to it. Maybe he has insulted you or others in a past thread and this is a continuation of that. Maybe he deserves it, the truth is I just don't know. Please don't take this in the wrong way, I am not saying you are out of line, just based on his single response and your follow up it appears so.

One of the things I have enjoyed about this site is the "Gentleman" type behavior, that while not the norm on the internet and especially on gun boards, has always been the rule here. Just in the past month I have seen that begin to slip away. It seems we are coming to a point when friendly disagreement is being replaced with chest thumping and insult (again not directed at you rimfired). It concerns me because outside of this place I know of no other board that has such a polite membership. There is really nowhere else to go without having to bear the "Mucho Macho". Anyway, my apologies to redlevel for the hijack and to rimfired if I have offended you in anyway.

My response really has nothing to do specifically with rimfired's post. I see a trend developing lately and if I remain silent, well that is the same as approving. Maybe I am crazy, out of line or the present has outrun my view of what I want this forum to be. Maybe it is time for me to just shut up amd move along .

rimfired said:

Cheese and rice Gator! You do know we all hold you in the higest regard for a civilian know-it-all who has never been in combat. Don't let that stop you from being an authority.
Please continue to regale us with all your mall-Ninja-survivalist techniques. I'm all a twitter....

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That's an interesting statement. Or series of statements rather. I made, and make no claims to anything I didn't do. Nor do I refer to friend of a friend hearsay. I offered information, as known to me, from either either open sources (i.e. anyone can take the time to look it up) or as related/observed directly. A lot of the technical information is related by armorers - they don't always shoot the guns at people, they fix them when they stop working.

Not a single thing I said was incorrect. I saw little need to sugar coat everything I type since the intent was neither friendly nor unfriendly and had no emotion behind it all.

I don't even recall having a disagreement with you, or anyone much, in the recent past. And having posted here for nine years, trust me, there were some good ones in years past. Nor do I generally take part in petty bickering, but the unusual nature of your response seemed to require a response.

If you think something that I said was in error, by all means point it out.

I have never claimed to have been in combat, and even if I had, I'm self aware enough that my experience would be rather limited (in terms of drawing confusions) and memories (40 years on) not the most reliable source of ballistic data, etc (though naturally still valid and important from a historical context in terms of relating an attitude/feeling at the time). I have been shot at - in a different context - and can't say that is an experience that I care to repeat regularly.

If you are annoyed that the information I offered seems to contradict your friend's memories, it is not meant to be an insult to him or anyone else with a differing opinion. I simply offered a counter point of what CURRENTLY seems to go on, be purchased, etc by modern Marines that I personally know or observe. Again, by all means, if you disagree with something, chime in.

I am somewhat at a loss as to what "mall ninja survivalist techniques" you reference. If it was my throwaway reference to armor, that's not hype or hearsay. It's simply the truth from both a historical context (utitlity of personal armor vs. firearms having shifted) and what most anyone who's been shot at recently will tell you. It's certainly what they tend to tell me, and what they teach in many carbine classes etc (some of which require armor with rifle plates btw).

EBR

New term to me, what does "EBR" stand for?

Evil Black Rifle

Yep. Get it now. Who know's what the future will bring. I say now, better than later, 'cause of the Sping Sales that have started. Could be the lowest prices of the year. May be a rush by years end...

I've just never been able to get excited about ARs. I've shot several; 5.56, .308, even one of those .45-somethings, but they just don't turn me on enough to really want one. If I wanted something semi-auto I'd be more likely to pick up an AK...maybe something like a PSL or Dragunov that uses the 7.62x54R. I've got a couple of racks of Russian and Finn Mosins and lots of ammo for those. A DP-28 to mount on my URAL sidecar would be nice though...

re: " and a couple hundred rounds of ammo."

....this tiny stash will somehow disasppear like cookies in the jar, far more rapidly than one could anticipate or justify.....

rockquarry said:

New term to me, what does "EBR" stand for?

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I'm still trying to figure out what "Cheese and Rice" means
Every time I get the urge to but an AR type-I look at my Mini 14 that keeps every shot in a 9" circle ( minute of pie plate) shooting with open sights offhand at 100 yards and the urge goes away. If I decide to get a new .223 it will be a bolt action so I can fullfill my inner sniper desire.
To be honest-I am waiting for Ruger to come out with their new Scout Rifle chambered in .223.

m657 said:

re: " and a couple hundred rounds of ammo."

....this tiny stash will somehow disasppear like cookies in the jar, far more rapidly than one could anticipate or justify.....

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Yep, looks like rimfired has that covered in his rig. That mag looks like at least a 50 rounder! I have seen 20 rounders, 30 rounders, even 40 rounders...BUT... if I saw one of those headed my way I would get me some yonder!

redlevel said:

I showed my carbine to a decorated Marine veteran just yesterday, a retired Gy Sgt. He was with 1st Force Recon in Vietnam in '68 and '69. He has been the pastor of my church since 1981. He said he and his men despised the gun for its unreliability and the round for its lack of power.

Maybe the military hierarchy has, or had, no problems, but the fighting man had plenty of problems with it, especially in the early years. Undoubtably, the reliability problems have been mostly addressed. I don't think the .223 round is any more powerful than it was then, though.

I got mine for a fun gun, and for something that will be able to lay down a larger volume of fire in case the Zombies do indeed come. If something goes "bump" in the night, I will grab a handgun until I can make my way to a shotgun, just like I always have, though.

Click to expand...

.223 is not used over there, and the gun has come A LONG way in the "few" years since they used them.

Stopping power, amount of ammo able to carry and magazine size, plus reliability, and ease of use, you can't beat that with a stick, but to each his own.